foxyFuze Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 Hi all, Firstly - if this is in the wrong thread, apologies! Once again I've had a gig where I can hear my DI signal clearly via IEMs, but even with an SM57 at front of stage I could get very little of the other instruments. Guitarist has no DI from his amp and the rather old PA I don't think has extra sends I can use; I have said regularly the PA needs upgrading and I believe this is imminent. Given limitations of inputs to my IEM Tx and the aforementioned points, I'm trying to find a decent mic for catching all instrumentation. It doesn't need to be crystal clear quality, just so I can get a feel of the drums, keys etc. I'm not intending to spends loads but would consider a pricy option if it was worth it. Any advice on options and placement welcome. I've had a look online but nothing conclusive as yet. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted December 4, 2021 Share Posted December 4, 2021 I had this problem. I bought a set of two cheap Behringer C2 condenser mics, set them up in a X\Y pattern using the dual holder they came with and mounted this to a short stand, placed mid stage. Works a treat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxyFuze Posted December 4, 2021 Author Share Posted December 4, 2021 @Muppet appreciated, thank you. Looks like a phantom power supply is needed, will have to investigate.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 The @Dood method of using a H4n springs to mind. Another option might be a PZM , there was a brilliant Tandy clone of these which pops up on t'bay from time to time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, pete.young said: The @Dood method of using a H4n springs to mind. Another option might be a PZM , there was a brilliant Tandy clone of these which pops up on t'bay from time to time. Yeah that was my starting point too, but I didn't have a H4n so spending £30 on condenser mics was the lowest cost option for me (given you're only using the H4n for the stereo mic capability), but if you have one, or a similar recorder, I'd definitely give that a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 48 minutes ago, Muppet said: Yeah that was my starting point too, but I didn't have a H4n so spending £30 on condenser mics was the lowest cost option for me (given you're only using the H4n for the stereo mic capability), but if you have one, or a similar recorder, I'd definitely give that a go. It can give you a lot more than just a pair of mikes. I put mine into 4CH mode, mikes for ambient, jack sockets a feed from the desk and a feed from the bass, adjust the levels to sort out your mix and plug IEMs into the headphone socket. But yes, expensive if you don't have one already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppet Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 2 hours ago, pete.young said: It can give you a lot more than just a pair of mikes. I put mine into 4CH mode, mikes for ambient, jack sockets a feed from the desk and a feed from the bass, adjust the levels to sort out your mix and plug IEMs into the headphone socket. But yes, expensive if you don't have one already. Yes appreciate that, but that’s a bit of an overengineered solution for the very simple problem at hand! The OP only needed ambient stage sound. I’m assuming he gets everything else from the desk or his IEM unit of choice…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxyFuze Posted December 5, 2021 Author Share Posted December 5, 2021 Both very good suggestions, as the Zoom could be great for getting practices recording for reference purposes! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted December 5, 2021 Share Posted December 5, 2021 The H4n method means you can also place compression / limiting on each of the mic or audio feeds too. Your mix to your ears is also stereo. fwiw I also use two condensers when necessary and a stereo IEM mix is available. Actually, I would rather set up my own external monitoring than have to ever go mono again. Eurgh. p.s. I’d not recommend anything but decent condensers for ambience. SM57’s response couldn’t deliver the results I’d wish for, but even a pair of SE pencils will be brilliant. SE8 for example, but even a pair of SE X1S mics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 Get an old omni reprters mic off ebay for £40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 15 hours ago, 51m0n said: Get an old omni reprters mic off ebay for £40 The problem comes when you buy blind and are unsure that the microphone elements can handle the SPL of a live environment. Even some unknown models that suggest being able to handle 120dB have fallen short in tests. I like the idea of at least using a couple of Behringer C2's. Cheap as chips and work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 6, 2021 Share Posted December 6, 2021 (edited) Old omni reporters mics by the likes of audio technica at8004 will definitely handle the spl. I use one as a 'core' mic on drum kit somewhere approximately equidistant between snare and kick drum shell. Max SPL is huge, but this mic adds a mass of kit character that I can't get any other way and can kinda dial in a vintage tone too. Works great for ambience and super rugged, no phantom power either. Plus they are omni, literally designed to pick up ambience! Edited December 6, 2021 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Granted, that's a useable example. Would be interesting to try those in stereo. There's a few in the 8xxx series I see too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Dood said: Granted, that's a useable example. Would be interesting to try those in stereo. There's a few in the 8xxx series I see too. Being omnis stereo gets 'interesting', tending to result in a reliance more on time delay than frequency response compared to a cardioid for instance. Basically if they aren't spaced out, you don't get a propee stereo image really. Hence a decca tree relying on spaced cardioids and a central omni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 re: spaced out, Yeah, I know. 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theplumber Posted January 3, 2022 Share Posted January 3, 2022 Zoom H1 or H1N...jobs a good un! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 On 03/01/2022 at 20:24, theplumber said: Zoom H1 or H1N...jobs a good un! Yes, I’ve used those too. The Q3HD, the Q8, H2n, H4n Pro, they all work well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxyFuze Posted January 5, 2022 Author Share Posted January 5, 2022 Yup, went for the Zoom! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bankai Posted July 4, 2022 Share Posted July 4, 2022 On 04/12/2021 at 12:32, Muppet said: I had this problem. I bought a set of two cheap Behringer C2 condenser mics, set them up in a X\Y pattern using the dual holder they came with and mounted this to a short stand, placed mid stage. Works a treat. This would be my suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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