Rich Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 14/07/2024 at 12:50, Kiwi said: All sounded great for different situations. My personal preference was 3...I'm really curious about how it might make my Status bass sound. Yes, my first reaction was 3. The more I listen to it, the more I prefer it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkle Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 1 hour ago, SquiddlyDiddly said: Question to Funkle - are you happy for Stas and myself to keep posting our documentation and analysis of the Wal preamp to your thread, or should we start a separate thread? - I don't want to be accused of hijacking your thread.. Absolutely fine with me, it’s a useful and relevant part of the overall investigation into Wals. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I don't know about the rest of the Basschat massive, but I'm loving this thread. A lot of the electronics talk goes straight over my head but its great to see the technical knowledge we have here. To me, this reverse engineering of the Wal sound is like watching chef's reverse engineering the KFC blend of 11 herbs and spices. Fascinating stuff, keep up the good work! 😎 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonC Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) I’ve been reading this tread for quite a while now and it’s really interesting! Fantastic analysis of the preamp too! I'm building a copy of a MK1 too at the moment, i own 3 Wal's (MK1 fretted, MK1 fretless and a ProIIe fretted). As a Wal addict i've always wondered if I was able to build one with the same quality... This one will be strung BEAD. I'm gonna use a lusithand double NFP special preamp with Turner Multicoil PU's, i'm gonna add a Jensen Jt-db-e transformer fot the balanced output. An ABM 3704 MKII bridge. I just had aluminum knobs lathed and black anodized, and made a copy of the wal output (Neutrik chassis with switchcraft jack). Mahogany body with ebony facings.. Still a lot of work ahead! I will soon start a new thread with my build diary. Edited July 18 by RonC 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 I plan to make a series of recordings to show some of the features of the wal circuitry. Zobel filters play an important role in forming the frequency response, and my friends' opinions differ greatly - it's almost 50/50 for and against their use. However, I believe that they have found application due to the protruding lower midrange, since the wal pickups are located along the string, and this will inevitably lead to amplification in the lower frequency range. In addition, there are at least 2 nodes in the circuit that introduce distortion, and I think it would also be very nice to show how each block works separately. I hope that today I will be able to make simple sound examples! 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 8 hours ago, RonC said: I’ve been reading this tread for quite a while now and it’s really interesting! Fantastic analysis of the preamp too! I'm building a copy of a MK1 too at the moment, i own 3 Wal's (MK1 fretted, MK1 fretless and a ProIIe fretted). As a Wal addict i've always wondered if I was able to build one with the same quality... This one will be strung BEAD. I'm gonna use a lusithand double NFP special preamp with Turner Multicoil PU's, i'm gonna add a Jensen Jt-db-e transformer fot the balanced output. An ABM 3704 MKII bridge. I just had aluminum knobs lathed and black anodized, and made a copy of the wal output (Neutrik chassis with switchcraft jack). Mahogany body with ebony facings.. Still a lot of work ahead! I will soon start a new thread with my build diary. This is fantastic! More than developing electronics, I lose my head over developing guitar designs! I find the solution of making handles myself very correct and original! Such instruments, into which you put your soul at their "birth", you love them with a special love! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Dixon Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 8 hours ago, RonC said: I’ve been reading this tread for quite a while now and it’s really interesting! Fantastic analysis of the preamp too! I'm building a copy of a MK1 too at the moment, i own 3 Wal's (MK1 fretted, MK1 fretless and a ProIIe fretted). As a Wal addict i've always wondered if I was able to build one with the same quality... This one will be strung BEAD. I'm gonna use a lusithand double NFP special preamp with Turner Multicoil PU's, i'm gonna add a Jensen Jt-db-e transformer fot the balanced output. An ABM 3704 MKII bridge. I just had aluminum knobs lathed and black anodized, and made a copy of the wal output (Neutrik chassis with switchcraft jack). Mahogany body with ebony facings.. Still a lot of work ahead! I will soon start a new thread with my build diary. Love your knobs.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquiddlyDiddly Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) 9 hours ago, RonC said: I’ve been reading this tread for quite a while now and it’s really interesting! Fantastic analysis of the preamp too! I'm building a copy of a MK1 too at the moment, i own 3 Wal's (MK1 fretted, MK1 fretless and a ProIIe fretted). As a Wal addict i've always wondered if I was able to build one with the same quality... This one will be strung BEAD. I'm gonna use a lusithand double NFP special preamp with Turner Multicoil PU's, i'm gonna add a Jensen Jt-db-e transformer fot the balanced output. An ABM 3704 MKII bridge. I just had aluminum knobs lathed and black anodized, and made a copy of the wal output (Neutrik chassis with switchcraft jack). Mahogany body with ebony facings.. Still a lot of work ahead! I will soon start a new thread with my build diary. Outstanding work RonC!!!!!! I wonder how many Wal players actually use the XLR output - my Wals have an OEP A262A5E 1+1:6.45+6.45 trafo (so probably a Wal specific version of the commercially available A262A3E). Funkle's Wal has an RS 217-804 (which is no longer available) trafo, also a 1+1:6.45+6.45 trafo and looks to be a rebadged OEP - none of these OEP trafos are expensive transformers (£18). The DI boxes in our studio are based on the Bo Hansen design, which use a mixture of Haufe ST8456 (£60) and Llundhal 1538 (£65) trafos, the Bo Hansen design also takes the A262A3E, which to my ears sounds a couple of pegs down in quality compared to the Haufe and Llundahl. In other words, I would record my Wal, using the jack into one of my Bo Hanse DI boxes and skip the cheaper Wal OEP transformer. I cant replace the OEP trafo on the Wal pre amp PCB with the Llundhal (its too big), but I could fit the Haufe ST8456 via an adapter board to make its pins match the OPE A262A5E - another thing to try out one day.. Edited July 18 by SquiddlyDiddly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquiddlyDiddly Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 53 minutes ago, Stas said: I plan to make a series of recordings to show some of the features of the wal circuitry. Zobel filters play an important role in forming the frequency response, and my friends' opinions differ greatly - it's almost 50/50 for and against their use. However, I believe that they have found application due to the protruding lower midrange, since the wal pickups are located along the string, and this will inevitably lead to amplification in the lower frequency range. In addition, there are at least 2 nodes in the circuit that introduce distortion, and I think it would also be very nice to show how each block works separately. I hope that today I will be able to make simple sound examples! I guess it is the way the Wal pickups are wound with individual pole coil outputs, the Zobel input filters (one per pole output) and the distortion from these 2 nodes which contribute the majority of the Wal sound and not a slew-limiting TAB1043..? I think the genius part of your Waly design is your own input filter design (rather than Zobel input filters) which allow you to use single coils pickups other than Wal/Turner multi coil style and still get the Wal sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 36 minutes ago, SquiddlyDiddly said: I guess it is the way the Wal pickups are wound with individual pole coil outputs, the Zobel input filters (one per pole output) and the distortion from these 2 nodes which contribute the majority of the Wal sound and not a slew-limiting TAB1043..? I think the genius part of your Waly design is your own input filter design (rather than Zobel input filters) which allow you to use single coils pickups other than Wal/Turner multi coil style and still get the Wal sound? I think that "that same wal" is more about signal limitation, and of course it is due to wideband pickups. My input stages pull up weak harmonics, if in general, it certainly helps me to work with simple coils 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickA Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 2 hours ago, SquiddlyDiddly said: I wonder how many Wal players actually use the XLR outpu Not me. Not sure what it's for tbh. My amp has a di output if there's a pa to connect up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 The transformer does not affect the timbre. Even if it is of better quality, the less influence it has on the frequency response. A bad transformer with high-impedance signals "eats" low frequencies. That is why expensive matching transformers have high inductance on the primary winding. Well, a regular LC filter. In the case of a wal ea transformer, a low-impedance signal is received, so the inductance value on the primary winding does not matter at all. You can even install a network transformer the only question will be in the transfer ratio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonC Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 9 hours ago, Mark Dixon said: Love your knobs.. Thanks! They are without numbers or ridges and i like that. I never look at the numbers on my wal anyway and it looks very "clean" like this, what i prefer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonC Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 9 hours ago, SquiddlyDiddly said: Outstanding work RonC!!!!!! I wonder how many Wal players actually use the XLR output - my Wals have an OEP A262A5E 1+1:6.45+6.45 trafo (so probably a Wal specific version of the commercially available A262A3E). Funkle's Wal has an RS 217-804 (which is no longer available) trafo, also a 1+1:6.45+6.45 trafo and looks to be a rebadged OEP - none of these OEP trafos are expensive transformers (£18). The DI boxes in our studio are based on the Bo Hansen design, which use a mixture of Haufe ST8456 (£60) and Llundhal 1538 (£65) trafos, the Bo Hansen design also takes the A262A3E, which to my ears sounds a couple of pegs down in quality compared to the Haufe and Llundahl. In other words, I would record my Wal, using the jack into one of my Bo Hanse DI boxes and skip the cheaper Wal OEP transformer. I cant replace the OEP trafo on the Wal pre amp PCB with the Llundhal (its too big), but I could fit the Haufe ST8456 via an adapter board to make its pins match the OPE A262A5E - another thing to try out one day.. Thanks! I've used the DI on my Wal several times in the studio and the result was fine. The Jensen is a 12:1 trafo (check PDF). I was thinking of connecting it without R2 and C1. Would R1 be nessesary? jt-db-epc.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, RonC said: Thanks! I've used the DI on my Wal several times in the studio and the result was fine. The Jensen is a 12:1 trafo (check PDF). I was thinking of connecting it without R2 and C1. Would R1 be nessesary? jt-db-epc.pdf 297.8 kB · 4 downloads A resistor is not required, but a capacitor is usually installed. This is a ground lift. Edited July 19 by Stas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonC Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 1 hour ago, Stas said: A resistor is not required, but a capacitor is usually installed. This is a ground lift. Oké, so would you advice to connect pin 1 of the XLR via a capacitor to the same ground as the ground of the jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 5 minutes ago, RonC said: Oké, so would you advice to connect pin 1 of the XLR via a capacitor to the same ground as the ground of the jack? Well yes, the ground is common Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonC Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 6 minutes ago, Stas said: Well yes, the ground is common then a ground lift doesn't have a function i suppose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 5 minutes ago, RonC said: then a ground lift doesn't have a function i suppose? in most cases it can be used without a capacitor. But there are cases when the network component can go through the common wire. In this case, it is broken. Of course, you can not put a capacitor, and it will work, but personally I would leave it, because it will not make things worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquiddlyDiddly Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, Stas said: A resistor is not required, but a capacitor is usually installed. This is a ground lift. Agreed, resistor not required, but a 10n cap ground cap would be good, which is what the Wal XLR uses and per Jensen circuit you shared. My Wal preamps use a Vishay MKT1813310405 0.01uF Film Cap, Funkles use a penny style Ceramic Disc cap (possibly a Vishay), same 10n/0.01uF value Edited July 19 by SquiddlyDiddly 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonC Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 Thanks both!! So the resistor on the primairy side is also not nessesary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 7 minutes ago, RonC said: Thanks both!! So the resistor on the primairy side is also not nessesary? No, you don't need to add 6k8. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stas Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Hi friends! I made several boards and sent them to musicians I know so that they could test them in operation under various extreme conditions. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquiddlyDiddly Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 First version of my TAB1043 drop in substitute, just need to solder a second one, runs some tests and see what it sounds like.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SquiddlyDiddly Posted July 26 Share Posted July 26 Some tight tolerances and a lot of fun to solder.. after some basic tests for shorts this will go into the ultrasonic bath for a quick clean.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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