Building a Wal....ish

[LouieM]

This is looking amazing, I've been lurking since this thread started and my expectations have been blown away, everything so far has worked out great and I cannot wait to see the final product!!

unleash your inner Justin Chancellor, Flea, Greg Edwards, Geddy Lee etc. !!

[Andyjr1515]

To the untrained eye, this looks JUST like the last couple of shots 

 

 

Trust me...it's different.  The profile is now sanded and has passed the Andyjr1515 air guitar test 

 

Next job, hopefully later today, is measuring and drilling the tuner holes.

[Andyjr1515]

For the tuner positioning, the first thing to do is to draw the string runs - as this is a 4 in-line, then it is the bass edge of the string width that is important.  That done, the radius of the centre pegs gives you the drill centre positions:

 

Then a double check that I have my spacings right and that the tuner paddles and bodies don't clash:

 

 

So then it can go down to my mini drill press with a drill bit large enough for the top bushes:

 

And done:

 

 

There are all sorts of shenanigans going on in the Andyjr1515 household over the coming couple of weeks and so it is unlikely that I'll get back to this before the end of the month...but we're on the home straight.  Should be pretty quick to finish off once I can get back to what really matters! 

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

A few hiccups in the progress on this, I'm afraid, (found out what 2.5tonnes of Range Rover does to a Toyota Corolla if its driver decides to see what it's like driving on the wrong side of the road and you have the audacity not to be able to get out of the way in time .  Also found out how useless and incapable the AA is on all fronts after at least 3 full days on the phone listening to their 'your call is important to us' messages!) but have been back on it the last couple of days.

 

And so...final shaping  done.  Here it is after a decent amount of 'air bass playing' using my Fender-sized neck pocket test body:

 

 

Final finished sanding is planned for this morning in the Derbyshire sunshine (as much to see any swirls or aberrations than my desire to get out of the cellar)

 

Then staining will begin, aiming for this kind of vibe:

 

I'm sure it will take a few goes!  But it will still be easier than trying to get any accurate answers or, god forbid, action from the AA  

 

 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

And so, final sanding done and the essential 'damp cloth test' :

 

Basically, any missed glue lines will show up light and any missed sandpaper lines will show up dark...like these two going cross-grain in the middle of the picture:

 

And then the first couple of coats of the under-stain...a pretty standard amber (in fact thinned Chestnut Spirit Stains Yew):

 

@funkle wants a touch more brown than this and so I will get my test piece of maple to match this and then try a coat of a thinned mix of light mahogany with a teeny drop of dark mahogany.  If I can replicate my original sample, then I will add that further coat tomorrow.  Then it should be ready for the lightly tinted Osmo finish top coats.

 

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

OK - browns added and first coat of Osmo applied:

 

[funkle]

Beautiful!! Almost a roasted look, I love that. I can’t wait to hear if it makes a difference to the sound of the build, as I hope. 
 

@Bass Culture’s build was fascinating to see and the sound clips/videos he did recently were interesting to me. Mainly because I still thought the sound he got out of his Wal clone was cleaner/less low mid heavy than I expected, even with all of the attention to Wal-like detail. (Sounds great BTW)
 

This raises the possibility again of the sound mostly being the pickups/preamp, as alluded to by many on this thread. Alan @skelfwas clear to me that he thought the Wal sound mostly was in the preamp. 

I guess this is how R&D goes. At least I can share what I find publicly…my successes and failures…
 

The chaps working back a Wal Custom preamp schematic from my photos tell me the topology is different to what has been generally thought. I quote them directly from a recent message:

 

’The thing that struck me the most was the filter topology used in the original. Most people on the net assume that the Wal uses a "state variable filter" topology. This type of filter is a bit more complicated (more components), but can easily change cut off frequency and Q factor (boost at the cutt off freq) independent of each other.

 

From what I can see, the original uses a Sallen-Key topology - which isn't that flexible at all. It has fewer components, but gain, freq and Q can't really be adjusted independently, maybe to a degree and with some wild twists. And the original Wal is using all those wild twists.

The Attack function is also very interesting - a signal is taken from one of the pickups (I think it's the bridge pickup) and passed through a high pass filter, leaving only the high end of the raw pickup signal. Then later at the end of the signal chain, that signal is added to the total mix for the attack effect. Really clever idea!!!’ 

I briefly note in passing Alan’s use of a similar idea for adding treble back in for the ACG EQ-01. Though his lets you pick which pickup to take the signal from. 
 

I attach a draft very early version of a preamp schematic, though without values or second pickup yet added, for your pleasure. 
 

Edited July 1, 2022 by funkle

[Andyjr1515]

First wipe of some thinned gloss.  I'm pleased how this is turning out

[paul_5]

Of course, you realise that there’s a lot of cork sniffing when choosing opamps - look on any hifi forum, it’s almost as bad as the ‘tonewood’ schism!

 

😄

[Geek99]

10 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Of course, you realise that there’s a lot of cork sniffing when choosing opamps - look on any hifi forum, it’s almost as bad as the ‘tonewood’ schism!

 

😄

The what ? People spend time talking about that ? Everyone knows it’s rubbish … or is it ? :🤔

 

 

 

🍿

[LukeFRC]

56 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Of course, you realise that there’s a lot of cork sniffing when choosing opamps - look on any hifi forum, it’s almost as bad as the ‘tonewood’ schism!

 

😄

It’s ok - the wal preamp is two transistors and 3/4 of a 4opamp IC that’s not in production any more and crazy hard to find 

[paul_5]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

It’s ok - the wal preamp is two transistors and 3/4 of a 4opamp IC that’s not in production any more and crazy hard to find 

Low current drain and high fidelity is difficult to achieve!

[Kiwi]

On 01/07/2022 at 22:35, funkle said:

From what I can see, the original uses a Sallen-Key topology - which isn't that flexible at all. It has fewer components, but gain, freq and Q can't really be adjusted independently, maybe to a degree and with some wild twists. And the original Wal is using all those wild twists.

The Attack function is also very interesting - a signal is taken from one of the pickups (I think it's the bridge pickup) and passed through a high pass filter, leaving only the high end of the raw pickup signal. Then later at the end of the signal chain, that signal is added to the total mix for the attack effect. Really clever idea!!!’ 

I like it when the technical side backs up the circumstantial or qualitative.  We knew something unique was happening with the electronics and it seems that this is indeed the case. 

[funkle]

On 02/07/2022 at 23:32, LukeFRC said:

It’s ok - the wal preamp is two transistors and 3/4 of a 4opamp IC that’s not in production any more and crazy hard to find 

 

Yes, BC549 NPN transistors and a TAB1043 Programmable Quad Op Amp.

 

People have attempted to try and find a suitable replacement. https://music-electronics-forum.com/forum/music-electronics/16236-looking-for-an-alternative-to-tab1043-ic. There seems to be debate elsewhere about whether the op amp makes much odds to the sound or not. 

 

Newer Wals appear to keep the same op amp. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/desparately-trying-to-recreate-wal-tone-club.1162886/page-3#post-17987143. The implication might be that it is indeed part of 'the sound'. 

Edited July 4, 2022 by funkle

[Kiwi]

1 hour ago, funkle said:

Newer Wals appear to keep the same op amp. https://www.talkbass.com/threads/desparately-trying-to-recreate-wal-tone-club.1162886/page-3#post-17987143. The implication might be that it is indeed part of 'the sound'. 

This leaves the question of where the supply of these opamps is coming from. 

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Kiwi said:

This leaves the question of where the supply of these opamps is coming from. 

or indeed an answer to that thread asking why they don't make more...

[Andyjr1515]

Good that the topic has moved back to the pre-amp...because while the solution for that has been drifting into clear sight, the colour of the neck has been drifting the other way 

 

Spirit stains, popular as they are and even heavily thinned, are (for me) a bit of a crude club - especially if you are trying to get a particular look.  And the extra coats of stain and varnish have been moving everything too far away from the original plan.  So @funkle and I have agreed that I am going to sand it back (that doesn't take long on a neck) and start the staining and finishing again. 

 

And I've decided I am going to go back to my preferred medium - ink.       I have some of the colours already here but have ordered a few more colours to see if we can get closer to the particular tone that @funkle has in mind.  Should have the inks in the next couple of days and so I will move my attentions to levelling and recrowning the frets and sorting the top and side dots

 

[LukeFRC]

I didn’t want to say anything based on the last pic but think that’s the right choice 

[Kiwi]

12 hours ago, LukeFRC said:

I didn’t want to say anything based on the last pic but think that’s the right choice 

I share the same sentiments.  I was thinking something more amber coloured might be nice. 

[Paul S]

On 30/06/2022 at 09:57, Andyjr1515 said:

A few hiccups in the progress on this, I'm afraid, (found out what 2.5tonnes of Range Rover does to a Toyota Corolla if its driver decides to see what it's like driving on the wrong side of the road and you have the audacity not to be able to get out of the way in time . 

 

You OK Andy?

[Andyjr1515]

1 hour ago, Paul S said:

 

You OK Andy?

Yes, thanks - MrsAndyjr1515 and I were very, very lucky.  I said to the traffic cop (and I am prone to exaggeration), "A second's difference and I think that would have been curtains!"  His reply was, "Hmmm...I reckon it was a lot closer than that..."

 

Of course, I now blame the 110mph closing-speed near-headon collision with a 2+tonne battering ram and resulting 270 degree pirouette into the trees for getting the colour completely wrong on @funkle's bass neck  

 

...and for forgetting to put the dishwasher on

 

...and for not getting the lawns cut before it rained

 

...and

 

[bloke_zero]

19 hours ago, Kiwi said:

This leaves the question of where the supply of these opamps is coming from. 

They might have bought a few thousand when they were reaching EOL - probably not expensive in bulk.

 

5 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Yes, thanks - MrsAndyjr1515 and I were very, very lucky.  I said to the traffic cop (and I am prone to exaggeration), "A second's difference and I think that would have been curtains!"  His reply was, "Hmmm...I reckon it was a lot closer than that..."

Terrifying! I am glad you're both ok!

[Daz39]

39 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Yes, thanks - MrsAndyjr1515 and I were very, very lucky.  I said to the traffic cop (and I am prone to exaggeration), "A second's difference and I think that would have been curtains!"  His reply was, "Hmmm...I reckon it was a lot closer than that..."

 

Of course, I now blame the 110mph closing-speed near-headon collision with a 2+tonne battering ram and resulting 270 degree pirouette into the trees for getting the colour completely wrong on @funkle's bass neck  

 

...and for forgetting to put the dishwasher on

 

...and for not getting the lawns cut before it rained

 

...and

 

Crikey. Glad you're ok.

What you need is a replacement bumper made of that super hard woodtype you used on @fleabag's neck. That'll learn 'em. And fit some dispensers that launch that wood dust you need a mask for. (Yew?)

[Andyjr1515]

29 minutes ago, Daz39 said:

Crikey. Glad you're ok.

What you need is a replacement bumper made of that super hard woodtype you used on @fleabag's neck. That'll learn 'em. And fit some dispensers that launch that wood dust you need a mask for. (Yew?)

Plus a tonne of ebony in the boot to even out the contest  

 

You see, folks - it's true that the more experienced builders don't so much make fewer errors than newcomers to building guitars and basses...it's more that they simply get better at hiding them (or distracting the audience!)  

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Plus a tonne of ebony in the boot to even out the contest  

 

You see, folks - it's true that the more experienced builders don't so much make fewer errors than newcomers to building guitars and basses...it's more that they simply get better at hiding them (or distracting the audience!)  

Mate, even if not to your normal standards the stain was better than 99% of us could do - Its ok, you can make mistakes, you don't need to drive into oncoming traffic to distract us