Building a Wal....ish

[funkle]

The Wal recipe is 42.5 AWG (actually metric equivalent) wire, 10,000 winds per coil, C8 ceramic magnets, steel keepers. Not neodymium magnets at all..and the wire is different too. 
 

Straight DI sound would be great. 
 

(Everyone thinks it’s 42 AWG, but this in fact not right.)

Edited May 25, 2023 by funkle

[Kev]

On 24/05/2023 at 16:52, Tom Stafford said:

And just as yours arrives so does mine! Here is the lefty StingWal...

 

Gotta say I have to take back what I said about G&B Builds, they did a great job in the end and it plays fantastically.

 

Still just getting to grips with the dialling in of tones, but here are some quick rough takes of the usual Wal tone examples. Schism is Neck and Bridge, Give It Away is just neck pickup. Running into UAD Softube SVTR and being driven a bit, especially with GIA. No other processing - gonna experiment with my Mesa M3 and maybe some pedals etc in the next week or so.

 

Herrick Multicoils

Lusithand Double NFP Special

Mahogany body with walnut top (and a maple veneer in between)

Maple neck w/rosewood fingerboard

Schaller DaVinci machine heads

 

Sounds nice, something of a mid way point between a Stingray and a Wal tone, modern sounding but has some of that mid character.

[slowburnaz]

35 minutes ago, funkle said:

The Wal recipe is 42.5 AWG (actually metric equivalent) wire, 10,000 winds per coil, C8 ceramic magnets, steel keepers. Not neodymium magnets at all..and the wire is different too. 
 

Straight DI sound would be great. 
 

(Everyone thinks it’s 42 AWG, but this in fact not right.)

 

Might actually be Grade 1 or Grade 5 (though there's not a huge difference in magnet strength between 5 and 8) ceramics :-)...  I'd love to have an actual Wal pickup in my hands that I could tear apart (nicely tear apart..  ;-)) and could get some gauss measurements on those magnets they use.  Might be happening soon...  working on that.

Edited May 25, 2023 by slowburnaz

[Tom Stafford]

2 hours ago, funkle said:

Straight DI sound would be great. 

 

Any requests?

[funkle]

29 minutes ago, Tom Stafford said:

 

Any requests?

All good mate, play what your heart desires!

[bornleft]

Tom:  Who or what is G&B?

Do you have a link?

[NickA]

On 24/05/2023 at 16:52, Tom Stafford said:

Here is the lefty StingWal...

Nice bass.  Doesn't sound like a Wal to me.  Then again a. Processing and b. Tool don't sound much like they're using a Wal either to me. 😂.

 

Having said which, my Wals do sound quite different from eachother ( frets/ no frets, MK1/mk2, 4-string/ 5 string ) so there's likely a Wal out there that sounds like your stingwal too.

[funkle]

Another quick update. I ordered a nice brass shim set which I have now used to get the neck just right, and it is set up beautifully. 
 

Nuno fixed my broken volume pot and got me a new blend pot quickly, so the electronics are working again. 
 

I’m experimenting a lot with pickup heights now I have a bunch of different screw lengths (necessary as they fit fairly precisely into threaded inserts). I don’t think the present pickups need to be quite so far away from the strings as on a typical Wal - signal drops off too much.  
 

However there has to be a major difference in height between the neck and bridge pickups to get the right volume balance; I don’t think I was achieving this before in spite of my best efforts. The pickup routes were just not deep enough. 
 

I have a new appreciation of the Wal pickup design. It allows for easy pickup height adjustment without having to change screw lengths and without the risk of accidentally screwing through the rear face of the bass!

[Andyjr1515]

22 minutes ago, funkle said:

without the risk of accidentally screwing through the rear face of the bass!

Bin there...done that... 

[bloke_zero]

3 hours ago, funkle said:

However there has to be a major difference in height between the neck and bridge pickups to get the right volume balance; I don’t think I was achieving this before in spite of my best efforts. The pickup routes were just not deep enough. 

Can't you set the relative volume on the Luistand? There is a trimmer on each filter board on mine. That way you could set the height the same for tone but balance the volume electronically.

[funkle]

They are there indeed, and very useful.
 

But I am also alluding to another issue which I haven’t talked about - even with the pickups screwed right down on the prototype body, I was picking up a lot more false harmonics than usual, created by how my right thumb rests on the string.  
 

I hear this happen on my other basses, but quieter. It’s a problem of my technique. On the first prototype body, that happening was also a function of how close these powerful magnets were to the strings. I wasn’t getting wolf tones/warbling but I felt like maybe it wasn’t far off. 
 

I can now set the pickups further away but boost the output, and have less noise from false harmonics. 

[bornleft]

So?

[Passinwind]

FWIW, I finally got around to installing a second DIY filter in my 5 string Marco Bass, so it's now one  per pickup rather than one inline with standard bass and mid controls. I tuned the neck pickup filter considerably differently than the bridge one, after doing a new bridge pickup tuning as well. My simple mixing scheme works really well and this whole thing is now back on track to be part of my open source project series. I'll post details on Github soon, but I have two hybrid filter pedal designs to wrap up first. My goal is to have a loose builder network built up worldwide for those who don't want to or can't roll their own, but keeping it primarily DIY is my strong preference. Great to see all these new takes popping up.

 

I'll post a few clips when I can con one of my pro player friends into helping out, no one wants to listen to me playing a fretted bass! 😎

 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by Passinwind

[funkle]

2 hours ago, bornleft said:

So?

So not much presently. I’ve had gastroenteritis for a week and it’s been a rough ride. I can just about eat one meal a day in the last day or two, which is progress. I’m also trying to sort out an issue with new numbered knobs and getting them to fit the pots properly which I need for proper testing. 
 

I’m not one to post intemperately, but the tone and insistency to your posts have been frankly rude on more than a few occasions, which I previously chose to gloss over. That won’t be happening much longer; if you can’t manage to be polite/patient, I am simply going to block you. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by funkle

[bornleft]

I am just anxious for your success- but feel free to block me!

[Passinwind]

3 hours ago, funkle said:

I’ve had gastroenteritis for a week and it’s been a rough ride. I can just about eat one meal a day in the last day or two, which is progress.

Ouch! Heal up fast. And this kind of work takes however long it takes. 😉

[funkle]

28 minutes ago, bornleft said:

I am just anxious for your success- but feel free to block me!

I’ve never done it and would prefer you not be the first. 

[funkle]

Well, that escalated quickly.... Unfortunately, I won't be seeing Bornleft's posts any more. 

Edited June 4, 2023 by funkle

[bornleft]

WTF?

Blocked because I am eagerly awaiting the conclusion?

How Trumpian of you...

 

Edited June 5, 2023 by bornleft

[Kiwi]

54 minutes ago, bornleft said:

Blocked because I am eagerly awaiting the conclusion?

How Trumpian of you...

 

 

But...

 

8 hours ago, bornleft said:

 feel free to block me!

 

 

[bornleft]

The two statements are not incongruous...

[funkle]

On 26/05/2023 at 22:59, funkle said:

They are there indeed, and very useful.
 

But I am also alluding to another issue which I haven’t talked about - even with the pickups screwed right down on the prototype body, I was picking up a lot more false harmonics than usual, created by how my right thumb rests on the string.  
 

I hear this happen on my other basses, but quieter. It’s a problem of my technique. On the first prototype body, that happening was also a function of how close these powerful magnets were to the strings. I wasn’t getting wolf tones/warbling but I felt like maybe it wasn’t far off. 
 

I can now set the pickups further away but boost the output, and have less noise from false harmonics. 

 

Ok, I have recovered enough to do some more testing with pickup heights, and have surprised myself with the conclusions.

• With this present set of pickups wired in parallel, when setting the polepiece anywhere from 5.5mm to within 1mm of the fretted string underside, I see no meaningful difference in frequency content. Volume changes significantly, but treble response does not. My ears have been fooling me; I thought they were darker at higher polepiece heights.

• My issue with my right thumb creating false harmonics is not significantly different at different pickup heights,  it's just that they are more audible when the pickups are closer to the string (from the output jump). If I level match recordings done with polepieces set at 5.5mm and at 1mm they have the same amount of 'technique noise'.

Proved myself wrong on a few counts. I guess it's why it's good to sit down and record/use a frequency analyser rather than my first subjective impressions.

 

My take away for Chris' pickups (the MC4 SPSC versions I have presently) is that I can safely put them as close to the strings as I'd like. I guess other people's mileage may vary but that's what I've found. 

 

I'll need to try and do the same experiment with the Wal. My hypothesis from previous experiences is that it will behave differently.  

[funkle]

Ok, I am wrong again. The Wal does not behave differently. 

 

Just tested out more detail on pickup heights using the Wal Mk1. It behaves exactly the same to my ears and under the scope as Chris' pickups in terms of my findings above re: frequency response and volume.

 

I varied the height from 10mm away from the underside of a fretted string right down to 2mm away. Output changes significantly with height but the frequency response to my ears and under the frequency analyser, once level-matched, is the same. I don't get this; Wal themselves say in their materials that higher pickup heights make their pickups sound darker, but I cannot hear it or see it under the scope, so...This also contradicts my experiences earlier in the thread with lower pickup height improving tone on a Wal. I'm not sure what to make of this either. I definitely heard the change...hmm.  

 

 I'll now focus more on just getting more comparisons of the latest version of the Wal-ish recorded alongside the Wal. 

Edited June 18, 2023 by funkle

[funkle]

Another brief aside. I'll repeat myself. The way the Wal pickups set their pickup heights is very intelligent.

 

I would, if I were doing this all again, now choose the Wal pickup casing/mounting over the MM shape. The MM shape is cooler, but I can achieve a much wider range of pickup heights more easily using the Wal design than the MM shape/present mounting method. Live and learn! 

[ltank]

On 18/06/2023 at 15:56, funkle said:

I would, if I were doing this all again, now choose the Wal pickup casing/mounting over the MM shape. The MM shape is cooler, but I can achieve a much wider range of pickup heights more easily using the Wal design than the MM shape/present mounting method. Live and learn! 

 

I guess you could get the mounting ring from Chris turner. I recently bought a pair of SEP multicoils from him and I got the mounting rings along with them. It seems like you could fit any MM style pickup in it, but I don't know if slot depth could become a problem. But I could be very wrong..

Edited June 22, 2023 by ltank