Building a Wal....ish

[Bunion]

Maybe instead of lemon oil, really get get that Mick Karn vibe!! 
 

[funkle]

The Wal neck is actually 6 pieces, not 5. Only figured that recently. So the horn beam would have been split into 2, I think. 

[Bunion]

Yes two pieces in the middle 

[Andyjr1515]

While the epoxy on @fleabag's neck is curing and the wood cutting equipment is still out, a great opportunity to make a proper start on this neck.

 

There's a lot of careful measuring and re-measuring involved in this kind of thing.  This is the headstock shape that @funkle has asked for on the maple blank:

 

Because of the angle the headstock needs to sit at to give straight string runs to the tuners, even a relatively slim shape like this takes up a fair bit of real-estate.  Given that there will be 8mm of mahogany splices added in, though, it looks fine at first glance.

 

But there are lots of buts:

- the 'straight edge' of the blank actually is cut on an angle which will need squaring up

- each splice that is cut needs to be squared and planed to the correct size and for a dead flat glue surface

- each stage of the the splices being glued together needs a check for squareness to avoid cumulative tolerance 'drift'

- each cut loses around 1mm from the saw blade kerf width

 

And each of those stages involves taking wood shavings off.  It's very easy to lose more than 8mm!

 

So check, recheck and check again is the name of the game

 

To square up the top edge of the blank, I used the router table.  The far side of the fence has a spacer bar fitted so that it is a mm proud of the nearside.  The router bit is set to take a mm off and so the timber is supported by the fence before and after the cut.  Result is a dead square and dead straight length  

 

Now I have a square straight edge, the centre section can be cut from the blank:

 

The blank is a beautiful piece of flawless quarter-sawn and very straight maple.  But as soon as that 22mm wide strip was cut, it already took on a teeny bow.  So that's why Wal make the centre a two-piece!  Yes - the rest of the laminations will more than hold it all straight...but if you don't have to have that extra modicum of stress in the wood, then why have it.

 

So after a lot more measuring - because this would mean one more cut with more width lost - I sliced it down the middle, flipped on side over, squared it all up and glued it together, bow against bow.

 

So yes - we are going for a 6 part neck, following Wal's method and, probably, for the same reason

 

And here we have the centre 4 of the 6 splices (the two centre maple and a mahogany either side) gluing under the pressure of G clamps, two hefty bench clamps and as many sturdy clamping cauls as I could fit in the space:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[fleabag]

Nice spectator sport seeing as my neck is being crushed in a clamp

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

Ready to be squared up and then have the final two outers added:

 

[LukeFRC]

13 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

 

To square up the top edge of the blank, I used the router table.  The far side of the fence has a spacer bar fitted so that it is a mm proud of the nearside.  The router bit is set to take a mm off and so the timber is supported by the fence before and after the cut.  Result is a dead square and dead straight length  

I now have a router table on my shopping list!

[Kiwi]

19 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

This is the headstock shape that @funkle has asked for on the maple blank:

 

I recognise that headstock shape...:)

[NickA]

7 hours ago, Kiwi said:

On 26/04/2022 at 18:30, Andyjr1515 said:

 

I recognise that headstock shape

And then, when it still doesn't sound exactly like a Wal ... Will he want a different shaped one? 🙂

[funkle]

54 minutes ago, NickA said:

And then, when it still doesn't sound exactly like a Wal ... Will he want a different shaped one? 🙂

 

Not likely! Lol.

 

I can't tell if you're more worried that I'll manage to get it more in the Wal sonic region, or worried that I won't be happy. 😄 

 

I've learned a lot so far. More learnings will come. I haven't seen anyone else devote effort publicly to trying to work out a Wal, and I may as well share what I do learn. Even if it is that what we might need is a preamp that no-one else apart from Wal has yet built, or what have you. 

 

I'd love for someone to be able to run a model of the preamp through LT Spice or similar, maybe if we can get a schematic going....hopefully @MoonBassAlphaor my friend who is looking at the preamp photos can yet help. Wait and see.

 

Apologies for lack of recordings this week; I had promised it but family life has gotten in the way. Soon I hope. The Lusithand preamp is excellent. 

 

 

[Kiwi]

On 27/04/2022 at 15:24, LukeFRC said:

I now have a router table on my shopping list!

I bought a cheap one a couple of months ago.  Thirty quid and it probably flouts most CE mark standards for getting fingers caught in folding mechanisms.  But it's sturdy enough and will fold away when not in use.  I bought a second 1200W plunge router for about fifteen quid and a smaller 800w fixed one for six quid.  OEM manufactured tools are sold at pretty much wholesale prices online here.  After Summer I *might* get my own workshop but any progress on my builds really depends on finding suitable wood and swamp ash/alder are very hard to get hold of over here, as is figured maple.  Most of it comes from Russia (often not dried properly) but also sometimes Canada.  Nothing from the US thanks to tariffs.

[MoonBassAlpha]

11 hours ago, funkle said:

 

Not likely! Lol.

 

I can't tell if you're more worried that I'll manage to get it more in the Wal sonic region, or worried that I won't be happy. 😄 

 

I've learned a lot so far. More learnings will come. I haven't seen anyone else devote effort publicly to trying to work out a Wal, and I may as well share what I do learn. Even if it is that what we might need is a preamp that no-one else apart from Wal has yet built, or what have you. 

 

I'd love for someone to be able to run a model of the preamp through LT Spice or similar, maybe if we can get a schematic going....hopefully @MoonBassAlphaor my friend who is looking at the preamp photos can yet help. Wait and see.

 

Apologies for lack of recordings this week; I had promised it but family life has gotten in the way. Soon I hope. The Lusithand preamp is excellent. 

 

 

Sorry,  I  haven't managed to find the photos yet, may only have been on an old phone 😞

 

[Andyjr1515]

Hang on!  Something a bit odd here???

 

 

 

 

It's alright - don't panic...there's madness in my method in my madness.

 

It's all about keeping everything straight.  The glue dampens the timber, that expands and, given the length and narrowness of the 4-piece centre section, this drying can easily allow the section to bend.  The narrower the section, the more susceptible it is to bend.  So if I cut the relatively thin top section of the neck and then glue it, the same can happen and when that dries, there can be a small bend left...and now that is wider, that can be a divil to sort.

 

But there is no chance that the centre section is going to bend the above maple blank.  So it's now dry, it's straight and when I do now cut it to width, it is that much wider...and that should tame any residual tendency to bend.

 

Leastways, that's the theory 

 

So this afternoon, I will make the final cut, plane the cut edge, flip it to get the grain mirrored and glue it to the bare mahogany face and that should mean that the basic blank is fully glued up. 

 

 

  

[LukeFRC]

3 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Hang on!  Something a bit odd here???

 

 

 

 

It's alright - don't panic...there's madness in my method in my madness.

 

It's all about keeping everything straight.  The glue dampens the timber, that expands and, given the length and narrowness of the 4-piece centre section, this drying can easily allow the section to bend.  The narrower the section, the more susceptible it is to bend.  So if I cut the relatively thin top section of the neck and then glue it, the same can happen and when that dries, there can be a small bend left...and now that is wider, that can be a divil to sort.

 

But there is no chance that the centre section is going to bend the above maple blank.  So it's now dry, it's straight and when I do now cut it to width, it is that much wider...and that should tame any residual tendency to bend.

 

Leastways, that's the theory 

 

So this afternoon, I will make the final cut, plane the cut edge, flip it to get the grain mirrored and glue it to the bare mahogany face and that should mean that the basic blank is fully glued up. 

 

 

  

I have no idea what I’m looking at. You’ve stuck a little wooden thing to a big wooden thing to stop the little wooden thing bending before you stick it to the big wooden thing? 

[Andyjr1515]

42 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I have no idea what I’m looking at. You’ve stuck a little wooden thing to a big wooden thing to stop the little wooden thing bending before you stick it to the big wooden thing? 

I couldn't have put it clearer myself 

 

And the result is:

 

All of the squaring up, saw cut losses, etc have lost me a net 3mm of headstock width but that will not affect either the functionality or the overall look (lightly pencilled here)

 

The flowery glass is less about me reaching into my domestic side as much as finding out that toughened glass chopping boards from Dunelm are ideal as dead flat surfaces for initial glue levelling/chisel sharpening/etc.  The sandpaper and leather for the latter can be seen stuck to the other side  

 

[Andyjr1515]

All seems to be gap free and straight

 

 

 

Over the weekend, I'll pop it through the thicknesser to get the surface flat and even for the next steps.

[funkle]

I had meant to say. I am happy to share the photos I have have taken of the Wal preamp boards if anyone is interested enough to have a look. You can PM me privately. 
 

Like I said before, I have a friend who is currently trying to analyse them. We’ll see how far they get. 

 

EDIT: I have a Talkbasser who has taken me up on the offer and is also working on this project now. 

Edited May 3, 2022 by funkle

[funkle]

I am going to repost some musings I have had over on Talkbass as they are relevant to discussions around preamp design between filter based preamps. They may be of interest.

 

'The big factor in my view is the range of frequencies chosen for the individual pickup low pass filters. You can end up with basically two very fancy/interactive mid controls that need a lot of fiddling and can be finicky to get right. And depending on how they are set you then may not have much control of the low end from your bass, or lack treble after you have low-passed both of your pickups significantly.

I can see the Wal preamp as being an excellent and relatively simple way to tackle some of these issues. The filters go down to around 80-100Hz from my testing, so you can use one pickup as your 'bass boost' by rolling it off all the way, kicking in the resonance boost as desired, and then blending in the other pickup for your mids. Then deciding to engage the 'pick attack' to add back in treble if desired. It's really clever, I think, as it allows adjustability but is still usable. It also adds a bit of distortion to the sound, imparting its own sonic character.

I can see ACG's EQ-01 preamp as being an excellent way to try and tackle these issues, as well. I have not tested it as fully as I should have, but ACG decided to go as low as the Wal preamp (I think his initial preamps went even lower) and he included a circuit to blend treble back in from your choice of pickup. So you can use one pickup to control amount of low end, and decide how much treble to add back in. The bit that makes the ACG finicky is that the resonance boost for each pickup is variable as opposed to fixed, so 2 more knobs to twiddle, and the treble is variable in the range of frequencies affected and the amount you blend back in, so that gives another 2 knobs to tweak as well. If you can handle some of the extra adjustability, it's an incredible preamp. It also is extremely clean, and does not impart any harmonic distortion, which can be good or bad depending upon your point of view.

Alan's EQ-03 version I think refines his vision even further - http://www.acguitars.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/ACG_EQ03.pdf

Nuno's Lusithand preamp splits the difference here a bit. His frequency range for the LPFs goes higher than the Wal (up 4.5kHz) but not as low (down to 150 Hz). So you do end up with more treble in the system to start off with, but if/when you cut those frequencies on both pickups, there's no way to bring it back. Equally, since his controls go to the low mids only, there's no way to really control the amount of perceived bass. So you're going back to the amp or pedals to tweak treble and bass.'
 

[LukeFRC]

Just a comment that in practice the ACG EQ1 is super easy to use - put the filters where you want, in practice resonance will either be off, full or the centre detent (and then tweaked from there) the set the treble frequency in such a way adding it doesn’t create a big high mids boost… 

then live you have the blend control for front or back pickup and the treble control for top end as you need it. 
 

It can be complex but I learned to tweak on The fly by ear and without looking at the knobs 

[LukeFRC]

That said switching to a passive P bass is a breath of fresh air! 

[eude]

40 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

Just a comment that in practice the ACG EQ1 is super easy to use - put the filters where you want, in practice resonance will either be off, full or the centre detent (and then tweaked from there) the set the treble frequency in such a way adding it doesn’t create a big high mids boost… 

then live you have the blend control for front or back pickup and the treble control for top end as you need it. 
 

It can be complex but I learned to tweak on The fly by ear and without looking at the knobs 

My experience has been very positive too.

Setting one pickup for the beef, the other for a bit more of an edge/punchy tone, and then the treble control for slice. In the case of the DFM, then using the passive tone to take any harshness out.

After that, you just use the blend to taste. I think it can be as complex or as simple as you like, depends on how you approach it, but chasing a very specific tone in your head might get you in trouble rather than just finding what's in the voice of the instrument. It's an incredibly flexible preamp, but you need to approach it differently. Having said all that, to my ear, my ACG with the MC pups and DFM preamp, through a Sansamp for a little hair gets very very close to the BSSM tone. I think a big part of that is the mahogany body, hard top, and bolt-on 5 piece neck though.

[Andyjr1515]

Haven't done a lot on the neck over the last few days but most of the coming week will be devoted to finishing @fleabag's neck and making decent progress with this one.  The one thing I did do, though, while the equipment was still out on the bench, was run the neck blank through the thicknesser - just to ensure both surfaces were completely flat and to check that there weren't any duff glue joints.  This looks OK

 

And trimming the end shows the grain enough to perhaps better explain why there was the conversation earlier about the number of maple splices and how they are arranged:

 

When solid, all of the grain will have been at the same angle, like the grain direction that you see on the left hand section above going like this /////////  .  And the grain direction is a key factor to which direction the timber would move as temperature/humidity/aging variations occur.

 

So the principle is:

- if the timber with the grain like this ////////   ,when subjected to temperature change, humidity change or just natural drying over time, has a tendency to bend, say, <- this way, then if you flipped it to \\\\\\\\\, then it will, instead, have a tendency to bend -> this way   

 

- so if you have one piece going \\\\\\\\\\ and join it to a piece going ///////// then you end up with grain that goes   \\\\\\\\\/////////  And now the bending tendency goes like this  <-->   ....which cancels each other out

 

-  and so - even in extremes of temperature or humidity change - it will stay straight. 

 

 

And that is probably why Wal go to the bother of splitting and joining that centre section.  And I presume that a Wal is also as above, so you have the same effect between every one of the four pieces, ie   //////\\\\////\\\\\\  And what about the mahogany?  Well, it is straighter grained, softer, thinner and weaker and any tendency for that to bend would be fully counteracted by the maple.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Andyjr1515

[Andyjr1515]

A bit more progress on the neck.

 

The spoked-wheel trussrod should be with me early next week.  I know the dimensions and so it was out with the router table again to add the trussrod slot (end-of-heel access):

 

 

 

Next, using a larger bit, taking around 5mm off the top of the headstock for a 'Fenderish' zero-angle-with-string-trees arrangement.  Safety first on this kind of task, keeping hands WELL away from that bit (Tip:  Before you take ANY action, ask yourself, "What could go wrong?" and "If it did go wrong, would I be in the wrong place?"      While you can't always prevent stuff going wrong, nevertheless you can usually make sure no part of you or anyone else is going to be in the wrong place if it does... )

 

Next, onto the bandsaw:

 

 

 

And why have I left the excess at the heel?

 

Well - @funkle and I will be discussing the dimensions of the pocket on the body he is planning to use - and if it is a standard Fender dimension pocket, that is larger than the Wal.  So there will be the choice of modifying the pocket or having the heel of the neck wider than the fretboard.  Either way, a generous excess at this stage is probably prudent - it's easy to take stuff off, but it's more difficult to put it back 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Andyjr1515]

@funkle and I have been PM'ing and come to a mutual conclusion - we're not going to use the Wal fretboard after all!

 

On its own, the heel end being a bit narrower than a standard 'Fenderish' neck pocket isn't a big issue.  But when we added up the other factors, it clearly wasn't going to be the best route:

 

-  I calipered it and actually it is 4mm narrower.  Under a pickguard that is not a problem...but the donor body @funkle is using is probably temporary.  And the body he will probably move to won't have a pickguard.

 

- Added to that, the width at the nut of the Wal board is wider than @funkle's ideal.  Oh - and at 4mm slimmer at the heel end, it would need to be a narrow-spaced bridge. 

 

- And the fretless board, of course is going to need to be fretted anyway. 

 

- And..and..and......and so it became quite clear, quite quickly that, actually, a new rosewood board was a better option. 

 

So there will be a short delay while I get hold of a blank - but then we'll get steaming ahead again!   

[TrevorR]

You know, they say that great minds think alike. This Zoot Basses custom build just popped up on the Zoot Facebook page…