Cab Height / Stack Height

[BassAdder60]

We often discuss our favourite bass cabs and how good they sound especially seeking a good rig for live gigs. But how much of the success is due to us hearing the sound purely by height of the speakers / stack ?

 

I recall using my Ampeg 610 cab for all my live shows and the one thing I always felt was I can hear myself always. 
 

In that quest I went through various 115 / 210 or just 410 options only to find that the higher cab was the better sounding. 
 

Today I use two Ashdown Pro Neo 210 cabs stacked and they are probably as high as my old 610 cab, result is I can hear the rig very well.

 

When I look at some other cab designs such as Ashdown ABM compacts they are wider than taller so a stack isn’t as high.

 

I do think a vertical designed cab ( still wide enough for a standard amp head ) has a lot of advantages as long as stacking doesn’t cause stability issues or a single cab is high enough.

Lifting cabs off the deck is the other option of course or amp stands 

 

I guess when we try out cabs in shops we often end up ( well I do ) sitting in front of it thinking yep it sounds great where a better test is stand up and play as if in a live setting ( albeit quieter for test purposes etc ) 

 

Looking at designs like Barefaced Audio they seem to follow this tall design 

Edited December 6, 2021 by BassAdder27

[fretmeister]

A single line of vertical speakers is also more efficient for horizontal spread as there is less wave cancellation.

 

4x10 square won't spread the sound as wide as 4x10 vertical.

 

I wonder if Barefaced will ever do a 'Extra Super Twin" with a 3rd cone to get it taller as well! That would be fun!

[BassAdder60]

4 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

A single line of vertical speakers is also more efficient for horizontal spread as there is less wave cancellation.

 

4x10 square won't spread the sound as wide as 4x10 vertical.

 

I wonder if Barefaced will ever do a 'Extra Super Twin" with a 3rd cone to get it taller as well! That would be fun!

A bit like that horrible looking Ashdown 310 vertical cab lol 😂 

Seriously though a good 310 or 312 vertical cab rated at say 600-800w minimum @ 4 ohms but wide enough for most amp heads would be a good one cab solution 

Edited December 6, 2021 by BassAdder27

[Osiris]

16 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

I wonder if Barefaced will ever do a 'Extra Super Twin" with a 3rd cone to get it taller as well! That would be fun!

 

The Super Siamese Twin, surely? 

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, BassAdder27 said:

A bit like that horrible looking Ashdown 310 vertical cab lol 😂 

Seriously though a good 310 or 312 vertical cab rated at say 600-800w minimum @ 4 ohms but wide enough for most amp heads would be a good one cab solution 

 

 

I quite like the look of those Ashdown cabs! Too heavy though.

 

Maybe a Barefaced Three10 with a tweeter (that could be turned off) could do it properly. Tilt back wheels etc.

 

Nice

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[fretmeister]

I stick my Super Twin in a corner (not too close to the walls) so the sound can wash over everyone.

 

It's their fault for turning up.

[uk_lefty]

The Markbass amp wedge thingy solves this. I love a fifteen but need the sound pointing upwards or I can't hear any top end on the sound... Wedge to the rescue. This is what I want for rehearsals and small gigs. Big gigs will have two fifteens stacked and no wedge, but also full PA support.

Edited December 6, 2021 by uk_lefty

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

3 hours ago, BassAdder27 said:

I do think a vertical designed cab ( still wide enough for a standard amp head ) has a lot of advantages

The loudspeaker engineering community has known this since the late 1940s. Neither Leo Fender nor Jim Marshall were loudspeaker engineers, so the blame for poor electric instrument speaker designs that persist to this day can be attributed to them.

[uk_lefty]

18 minutes ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

The loudspeaker engineering community has known this since the late 1940s. Neither Leo Fender nor Jim Marshall were loudspeaker engineers, so the blame for poor electric instrument speaker designs that persist to this day can be attributed to them.

Leo got it..... Wrong?!

[BassmanPaul]

1 hour ago, uk_lefty said:

Leo got it..... Wrong?!

He sure did! I remember the brand new Blonde, Blackface Fender Bassman I bought in the Sixties. I was so excited to use it at a gig. I set it up leaned it back on it's legs and it looked gorgeous! Started the first tune and all I got were notes farting in the worst way!

 

I took it back. They had sold my trade in but I left the  Fender there anyway!

 

Nowadays I gig with a pair of Acme B2 2x10 three way cabinets. They are placed stacked as a vertical 4x10, the 'Skinny stack.' LOL

Edited December 6, 2021 by BassmanPaul

[thodrik]

Most of my gigs over the last 20 years have involved using a 1x15 combo delivering the sound of my bass directly to my legs. At this point I believe that my calf muscles suffer from tinnitus. 

[BassmanPaul]

[Stub Mandrel]

6 hours ago, fretmeister said:

A single line of vertical speakers is also more efficient for horizontal spread as there is less wave cancellation.

 

4x10 square won't spread the sound as wide as 4x10 vertical.

 

I wonder if Barefaced will ever do a 'Extra Super Twin" with a 3rd cone to get it taller as well! That would be fun!

 

I think the word you are looking for may be 'Triple' 🙂

[Stub Mandrel]

2 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

6 hours ago, BassAdder27 said:

I do think a vertical designed cab ( still wide enough for a standard amp head ) has a lot of advantages

The loudspeaker engineering community has known this since the late 1940s. Neither Leo Fender nor Jim Marshall were loudspeaker engineers, so the blame for poor electric instrument speaker designs that persist to this day can be attributed to them.

 

The one band I'm in has just invested in active PA speakers, it's a bass bin each side with a vertical array of eight tiny 3" speakers on top. Sounds great.

 

The other band has an active bass bin each side and an active FRFR speaker on a pole above - similar principle.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Mains should seldom, if ever, be mounted above subs, but that's a PA issue, not electric bass.

Quote

Leo got it..... Wrong?!

Leo was a very skilled machinist, but acoustic engineering wasn't in his wheelhouse. He did recognize the need for tilt back legs on his cabs, though, a feature curiously absent on other brands.

[BassAdder60]

Why don’t they mount speakers in a cab angled up ?? 
 

I know some do this but for bass it makes more sense to fire upwards slightly and not straight out ? 

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I think the word you are looking for may be 'Triple' 🙂

 

Nah - that's too sensible!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Quote

Why don’t they mount speakers in a cab angled up ?? 

The detracts from the interior volume of the cabinet. Not a good idea when most commercial bass cabs are undersized as it is.

Edited December 6, 2021 by Bill Fitzmaurice

[Dood]

Many years ago, whilst I was still maybe a bit wet behind the ears, I discovered that rather than taking two speaker cabinets stacked, I could take just one, angled up to face my ears. These days, I have a little stand that cost about a tenner that I can pop cabinets on so they face my lug-oles. 

[Dood]

Just now, Dood said:

Many years ago, whilst I was still maybe a bit wet behind the ears, I discovered that rather than taking two speaker cabinets stacked, I could take just one, angled up to face my ears. These days, I have a little stand that cost about a tenner that I can pop cabinets on so they face my lug-oles. 

 

Actually, scrub that. I've not used backline for ages, because, well.. IEMs. 

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Mains should seldom, if ever, be mounted above subs, but that's a PA issue, not electric bass.

 

Interested to know more! The linear array attaches to the top of the woofers by built in sockets., Similarly on the other PA you can stick a rod in the top of the bass bin and balance the other speaker on top, if space is limited.

[Stub Mandrel]

3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

Mains should seldom, if ever, be mounted above subs, but that's a PA issue, not electric bass.

Leo was a very skilled machinist, but acoustic engineering wasn't in his wheelhouse. He did recognize the need for tilt back legs on his cabs, though, a feature curiously absent on other brands.

 

The first band I was in, the guitarist realised this and welded up a leg for his amp, as well as for two small PA speakers we used as monitors.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Interested to know more! The linear array attaches to the top of the woofers by built in sockets., Similarly on the other PA you can stick a rod in the top of the bass bin and balance the other speaker on top, if space is limited.

For best results the mains must be out front, lest they feed back into the mics. The subs should be close to a wall, for boundary loading and to prevent boundary reflection sourced cancellations. If you have two or more subs they should be placed either together or at least 16 meters apart, to prevent phase sourced cancellations. This also isn't new by any means, but it is almost universally unknown by consumers, and therefore ignored by consumers and manufacturers alike.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin