Best budget EUB for arco

[51m0n]

My son is now playing DB in the local music service philharmonia - he's touring France with them this week!

Trouble is, squeezing a DB into our gaff is going to be more than a mite tricky.

Solution would be an EUB I think.

However I'm no expert in this field, and dont want to lay out massive wedge for an instrument that may not be up to the task or more wedge than needed to get him an instrument to practice on; he plays predominantly classical, although he is going to get some jazz lessons too, so the main thing is a decent arco experience for him, akin to the real thing.

There are loads of EUBs out there, but the things to bear in mind are its got to be 3/4 size (no vertical 34" fretless basses), its got to deliver a decent arco experience (the sound needn't be spot on, but the feel needs to be close to that of a db), the cheaper the better - cos he may just decide to stick to electric bass in the end. If on the other hand he loves it and applies himself then an upgrade would certainly not be amiss in a year or so.

So gents, what are your suggestions?

[endorka]

I assume your son is using one of the orchestra's double basses for concerts?

I own an NS Design Wav and I've tried the Stagg EUB. The Stagg is very good value if you play predominantly pizzicato, but the strings seemed too close together and the arch around the bridge area is not pronounced enough for serious arco.

The configuration of the Wav is similar to that of a real DB, so bowing is possible, and the amplified sound is very realistic - more so than the pizzicato sound. Indeed, I am currently using this instrument on a series of concerts where I am interpreting both arco and pizz. double bass and cello parts along with a drummer and other amplified instruments, and it works well, better in my opinion than trying to amplify the real double bass to the volumes required... which is why I am using it.

In saying that, there are some compromises. The main one I find is that the EUB does not give the stability of a real one; I play seated, and the real DB is just not going to move at all. The EUB wobbles a bit, which makes playing it consistently a bit more difficult, mostly in terms of intonation, and I find myself gazing at the neck to check my intonation too often. I'm not saying it can't be done, it is just a bit more difficult. The Wav also does not have a neck heel, so playing around D on the G string is a different experience to the real DB. At the moment I'm trying to figure out a way to get a neck heel fitted to my Wav.

In truth, I'd be inclined to say that the EUB I have is very useful for situations such as that described above, i.e. double bass required at medium to high volumes or for certain travelling situations, but as a practice instrument I think he'd be best with the real thing - because of matters like the neck heel issue, learning how to sit or stand with the instrument, amongst others, it is easier to go from real DB to EUB than vice-versa. However, if you really have no choice, then getting a decent EUB is far better than nothing to practice on at all.

Jennifer

[chris_b]

Be careful. EUB has only patchy acceptance in many forms of music, Folk and Jazz fans can be very sniffy and don't take one near Opera or Classical!!

[guyl]

Someone on here was/is selling a Bridge Cetus which might be what you're after.

It plays and sounds like an upright due to the "proper" DB fingerboard, neck, tuners, bridge and strings but has a massively reduced body and built-in pickups. (and it looks very cool!)

If your lad is arco-ing, whether he uses a broomstick or a regular 3/4 bass, he will still need the same amount of space to "wave" his bow.

[51m0n]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes its understood that ideally a real one is the answer - but we dont (no really) have space to store it, and I think cutting it in half to fit it in the car may well result in a detrimetal tonal result!

Looked at the wav 4 - was hoping that would be the one to move up to though!

Although people do sniff at EUBs, as a practice tool, and to give him something to really get his teeth into I think that given our circumstances (available space, loonie 4 1/2 year old travelling at high speed all day with complete reckless abandon) its the best we can do for him.

Its a shame that the Stagg isnt up to it, they are right in the available funds slot....

[Mr Bassman]

[quote name='51m0n' post='455445' date='Apr 6 2009, 01:58 PM']Thanks for the replies.

Yes its understood that ideally a real one is the answer - but we dont (no really) have space to store it, and I think cutting it in half to fit it in the car may well result in a detrimetal tonal result!

Looked at the wav 4 - was hoping that would be the one to move up to though!

Although people do sniff at EUBs, as a practice tool, and to give him something to really get his teeth into I think that given our circumstances (available space, loonie 4 1/2 year old travelling at high speed all day with complete reckless abandon) its the best we can do for him.

Its a shame that the Stagg isnt up to it, they are right in the available funds slot....[/quote]

The Yamaha SLB100 is about as close as you'll get to a 3/4 upright for feel, the arco sound is convincing, and has a headphone socket. Quite pricey new!

The SLB200 is more portable, less expensive, has a slightly slimmer neck and about 1/2" shorter scale.
They both suffer from a poor pizz tone unless you fit alternative trancducers to the bridge as I have.

I wouldn't go down the NS route for classical or jazz.
I had one for a few years before I got my first SLB100 and now realise how much it held me back as a double bassist.

[synaesthesia]

[u]Budget[/u] EUB for Arco = oxymoron

Some of the better EUB makers will tell you not to rate their instruments for Arco at all.

Have a look at Alter Ego - their cultural environment is less pizzicato jazz/bluegrass and they made these to be credible arco EUBs. Expensive though.

[url="http://www.alterego-instruments.com/index.php"]http://www.alterego-instruments.com/index.php[/url]

Edited April 6, 2009 by synaesthesia

[OutToPlayJazz]

My Warwick Triumph is very good for arco playing, but again, they're very expensive... As mentioned above, I don't think the Stagg is going to be good for that. One of my pupils has one & the strings really are close together & there's not much curvature to the bridge.

[tauzero]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' post='455916' date='Apr 6 2009, 10:14 PM']I wouldn't go down the NS route for classical or jazz.
I had one for a few years before I got my first SLB100 and now realise how much it held me back as a double bassist.[/quote]
What did you find about it that held you back? Not that I'm playing classical or jazz, but I'm interested in where the deficiencies are.

[51m0n]

Oh

Anyone want to donate me a really fab EUB then

[beardybass]

[quote name='51m0n' post='461792' date='Apr 14 2009, 08:18 AM']Oh

Anyone want to donate me a really fab EUB then [/quote]


Hi there,

I've just got myself an Aria SWB, for the same reasons as you! It's a good bass (in my humble opinion!) and since you were saying that feel and size are more important than spot-on sound, I reckon it might be a good option.

I bought mine here in Japan, so I'm not sure where you can get them in the U.K. I know they have them on www.thomann.de not sure how you'd feel about mail order though, also I'm not sure about how they hold up price wise.

In short... good bass, worth a look.

Hope that helps

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I don't know if the palatino is any good for arco - might be worth a look. [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub_500_sb_electric_upright.htm"]Thomann sell a rebadged version[/url]
for around £320.

Endorka, Have you seen the [url="http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product_details.cfm?ProdID=1771"]NS bass heel[/url]
On his site Bob Gollihur says its not suitable for the WAV 4, but doesn't say why.

[endorka]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='468065' date='Apr 21 2009, 08:03 AM']Endorka, Have you seen the [url="http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product_details.cfm?ProdID=1771"]NS bass heel[/url]
On his site Bob Gollihur says its not suitable for the WAV 4, but doesn't say why.[/quote]

Apparently the profile on the back doesn't exactly match the neck of the WAV 4, but I am told that with a bit of sanding it fits fine.

I've mailed Bob Gollihur about this but he doesn't have any in stock at the moment. I've also emailed NS Design some weeks ago but have yet to have a reply from them. Perhaps it is time for a followup email.

Jennifer

[bassace]

I've just put my Steinberger NS CR4M in the For Sales. Reason, I'm known as a double bass player and bookers want my double bass. I'm just not getting the use out of it. It's a great instrument and bows well; it even has a 'bow' setting.

[hubrad]

To get the dynamics for arco, hollow body EUBs seem to work rather better. Sadly not as cheaply available(!)
I know someone who may be selling one.. I'll try to find out more.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='468065' date='Apr 21 2009, 08:03 AM']I don't know if the palatino is any good for arco - might be worth a look. [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_eub_500_sb_electric_upright.htm"]Thomann sell a rebadged version[/url]
for around £320.[/quote]

Crikey if that works for arco that might be the answer...

Of course all you bods in the now are going to tell me I'm off my loaf at this point aren't you

[TheRev]

[quote name='51m0n' post='477011' date='May 1 2009, 01:50 PM']Crikey if that works for arco that might be the answer...

Of course all you bods in the now are going to tell me I'm off my loaf at this point aren't you [/quote]


Have a butchers at the [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=303366"]Palatino modification thread [/url]over on Talkbass:


By all accounts the stock Pally is a bit rubbish, but with a bit of bicycle inner tube and a decent preamp it can be made to sound half decent.

[chrispiano]

My two cents- the NS basses are not ideal for arco.

Unlike a DB the bowing action is extremely unforgiving, slipping into harmonics is easy, and even with classical strings making music is an unforgiving process. You can make some wonderful sounds but the precision required is tiring.

Angling the bow does not produce a piano effect, the bow needs to be horizontal to the strings and full bow at all times to make a half decent sound. It is also imperative that the bow is positioned well along the length of the string, so as your left hand moves up the neck, the bow needs to follow.

I found playing standard DBs a hassle in terms of storage and transportation, but for orchestral purposes I really would not look at the NS series. It's definitely more an expensive but wonderful toy, for an arsenal of basses, not as an only bass. I have a CR5 with Thomastiks and I would imagine that the issues I describe above are exaggerated on cheaper models.

If you do take the plunge, I certainly recommend changing the strings to DB strings ASAP. Hope this isn't too late to be of use!