Bass has 500k pots instead of 250k - also beginner soldering advice

[Vin Venal]

Hi.

 

I'm thinking of changing the pickups in my Maruszczyk Elwood. Probably put in some Aguilar JHCs - they seem to be the humbuckers which sound most like SC jazz pickups to me.

 

Aguilar wiring diagram states 250k pots. Opened up the bass to see if the wiring was all OK prior to ordering. It has 500k pots.

 

How much difference will this make to the sound/output? 

 

Apologies if these are stupid questions, I have no experience of tinkering with electronics.

Edited December 18, 2021 by Vin Venal

[mybass]

If you ask this question in Google you will open up quite a few discussions or pointers about this. It was once followed as a ‘general’ rule as having 500k pots for humbuckers but Delano has 250k pots for all their pickup schematics. Go by the pickup manufacturers recommendations….using 250 or 500k pots can affect treble or even volume, including which value capacitor is recommended.

[franzbassist]

What @mybass says.  The higher the value the brighter the pot tone.

 

One of my basses has a Delano Xtender pickup in it, and even though the Delano schematics show 250k pots in all the diagrams my bass came with two 500k pots installed.  I recently rewired it and actually settled on a 500k volume and 250k tone with a .033 capacitor, as that sounded best to my ears.

 

If you're good at soldering you can mix and match and dial in a combination that works for you.

Edited December 19, 2021 by franzbassist

[Vin Venal]

Thanks. I'm not good at soldering (haven't done it since high school actually) and would prefer to keep the loom as is if possible. Or buy a good pre-wired set up I can just pop the pups on to.

 

I've noticed Dimarzio DP149s specify 500k pots, and I quite like the sound of these, so might look for a used pair to bang in. 🙃

[Maude]

Can I add a question here? 

This is a very simplified way of explaining my question and hopefully it'll make sense, and all very generally speaking. 

 

If a 250k pot (darker tone) goes from 1 to 10, does a 500k pot (brighter tone) go from 1 to say, 15, so that the full tone range of a 250k pot is included and extended, albeit squished up in the same sweep? Or is the start point altered so that you get 5 to 15 of a 250k pot? 

[ikay]

This extract from Seymour Duncan may help:

 

A tone pot is a simple filter. Because it has just one filtering component, it can be called a first order filter. Because of its construction it allows only low frequencies to pass, so the full name is first order low pass filter. The ‘unusual’ part of the tone pot is that it allows you to change the resistor part of the entire filter. In other words, a tone pot with a 500k ohm pot will give you the same sound rolled half way down as a 250k pot in the same circuit. The amount of highs that can actually be rolled off depends on the capacitor and resistor. The resistor will cut off an initial amount of highs but the final outcome when rolled down depends on the capacitor too. So, using a higher value capacitor will roll off more highs than a lower value one

[Vin Venal]

My soldering iron arrived today, and I did a practice with a couple of random pieces of copper wire.

 

Wow, I suck at soldering. Lol. Fun though.

 

Any soldering pointers for a noob?

 

I struggled to get the temperature right - seemed a bit all or nothing.

 

Also, steady hands - I do not have them. Pretty pronounced tremor actually.

[Thunderbird]

If all else fails contact our very own kiogan he makes high quality solder free looms

[Vin Venal]

36 minutes ago, Thunderbird said:

If all else fails contact our very own kiogan he makes high quality solder free looms

 

 

Thanks. That's the backup plan if I literally ruin this loom trying to tack on some pickups. Lol.

[John Cribbin]

What soldering iron did you buy and what type of solder are you using? 

[Vin Venal]

1 hour ago, John Cribbin said:

What soldering iron did you buy and what type of solder are you using? 

Draper 40 watt kit with the stand and the little sponge thingy.

 

0.6mm lead free solder.

[John Cribbin]

On 19/12/2021 at 01:09, Vin Venal said:

Draper 40 watt kit with the stand and the little sponge thingy.

 

0.6mm lead free solder.

Soldering is something you need to practice - Technique, temperature, clean Tip and Tin regularly.

 

Well there's whole books on soldering, so I won't bore you with my ramblings .... I've looked up your soldering iron, well done on getting one that's up to the job, so many people have problems soldering because they bought something too low powered to do the job.

 

Personally I don't like pointed tips for soldering, I find chisel tips much easier to use, but watch the video linked below.

 

Lead free solder, bin it! Old style 60/40 cored solder is easier to use. Lead free is a health and safety product that works far better in commercial flow soldering machines which is what it was designed for. Obviously if you have concerns about using a product with lead, check it out online. I've probably used Ersin Multicore since the 70's. Tried lead free once, that was enough ...

 

Best advice I can give you, practice and watch a few how to videos on Youtube. I've linked in one below, I've not watched it all, just dragged the and dropped the cursor in a few places to get the gist of what he's doing. Guy is using a pointed tip, so that will help you. He's also cleans his tip the same way I do, better than a sponge in my opinion.

 

 

[Vin Venal]

Thanks very much for the pointers! 🙂

[Twincam]

Use lead solder. It's just easier, plus it's more durable to movement and heat. 

Soldering irons with a temp gauge on are good. I find I use 350 degrees c. For lead free you may need to go higher. But honestly get some lead solder. 

Also something to hold wires down with. For starters a good pair of thin long nose pliers will do. 

 

Watch out when soldering say a wire to a pot that it stays there, and not flick up and splat molten solder all over your face!

Also move little bits of solder well away from working area. I once had a tiny, left over bit of soldering wire that was slightly wrapped around the soldering iron drop off, right onto an amp circuit bored. Right onto the charged caps! There was a flash and molten solder vaporised outwards! There's also a lesson in capacitor discharging in that story to. 

 

[paul_5]

Lead solder melts at a lower temperature than lead free stuff, which can in turn reduce the potential for ‘burning out’ the carbon track inside of a pot when wiring it up.

 

The downside is that gives off poisonous fumes, and should be used in a well ventilated area. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly afterwards too.

 

My own ‘top tip’ for soldering pots is to ensure that they are fully counter-clockwise before you start; this limits the amount of heat that can be transferred to the track inside them, this protecting them.
 

If you’re using lead free solder then your iron doesn’t need to be much hotter than about 220 degrees, lead solder will be fine at about 180/190.

[Twincam]

7 minutes ago, paul_5 said:

Lead solder melts at a lower temperature than lead free stuff, which can in turn reduce the potential for ‘burning out’ the carbon track inside of a pot when wiring it up.

 

The downside is that gives off poisonous fumes, and should be used in a well ventilated area. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly afterwards too.

 

My own ‘top tip’ for soldering pots is to ensure that they are fully counter-clockwise before you start; this limits the amount of heat that can be transferred to the track inside them, this protecting them.
 

If you’re using lead free solder then your iron doesn’t need to be much hotter than about 220 degrees, lead solder will be fine at about 180/190.

 

Yes good advice about the fumes and handling of lead solder. And yes as little as possible heat soak into a pot.

 

That low a soldering temperature seems too low to me. And ive never seen that low a temp recommended. However if it works or I'm missing something then fair enough. 

[Chienmortbb]

On 14/12/2021 at 14:50, franzbassist said:

What @mybass says.  The higher the value the brighter the pot tone.

 

One of my basses has a Delano Xtender pickup in it, and even though the Delano schematics show 250k pots in all the diagrams my bass came with two 500k pots installed.  I recently rewired it and actually settled on a 500k volume and 250k tone with a .033 capacitor, as that sounded best to my ears.

 

If you're good at soldering you can mix and match and dial in a combination that works for you.

I have just been re-looking at DiMarzio wiring diagrams and they suggest 500K for Vol and 250K for tone. Also the tone cap was 0.33uF or 33 nF.  Worked well for me on two basses. They also suggest Log pots that also worked for me giving a more useful control over the whole pots.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Chienmortbb

[KiOgon]

On 21/12/2021 at 23:07, paul_5 said:

Lead solder melts at a lower temperature than lead free stuff, which can in turn reduce the potential for ‘burning out’ the carbon track inside of a pot when wiring it up.

 

The downside is that gives off poisonous fumes, and should be used in a well ventilated area. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly afterwards too.

 

My own ‘top tip’ for soldering pots is to ensure that they are fully counter-clockwise before you start; this limits the amount of heat that can be transferred to the track inside them, this protecting them.
 

If you’re using lead free solder then your iron doesn’t need to be much hotter than about 220 degrees, lead solder will be fine at about 180/190.

180/190 Centigrade is equal to approx 350/375 Fahrenheiht, most digital display/controlled soldering irons will have switchable ranges.

Edited January 2, 2022 by KiOgon
smelling pistake

[itu]

On 22/12/2021 at 01:07, paul_5 said:

The downside is that gives off poisonous fumes, and should be used in a well ventilated area. Be sure to wash your hands thoroughly afterwards too.

Most of the fumes are coming from the burning resin. You are not boiling the lead, (or tin, or silver, or copper, or...) just melting. But it is true that any extra substances going to your respiration may be harmful to you.