Level 42 Before Level42

[Steve Browning]

@Bean9seventycan you tell us a bit about your history and gear? You will probably say you already have but I'd be interested to see it all in one, precise post (which reads as an insult but isn't meant to be).

[Steve Browning]

Now I've just figured out that the name in italics means they're typing (yes, I know it says that) I have to wait for you to finish!! 🙂

[drTStingray]

51 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

i am not ruling out obscure groups probably world wide who dropped into dance music , yet its besides the point ,, as the forum is trying focus on specific aspects ,,

why not Fender

& the bonus rabbit hole remembering mark king playing bass in macaris

 

at this point ,, the marcus miller rabbit hole filling up the pages has become a major diversion BRB

Good - there were several (probably 10 others) - the lead singer of one was Jaki Graham who became famous as a solo R and B singer in the 80s. Another similar was Ruby Turner though she was more traditional 60s R and B. Another local funk band, Rainmaker, was the support act on Stanley Clarke’s first tour - and yes when we heard Schooldays for the first time, and live - I was blown away by the bass sound and playing (pity he dropped and broke his double bass though……..)!! 
 

However the Brit funk thing was based firmly in the south east and grew out of the dance scene - that was part of the initial audience for bands like Freeze and Level 42 - the jazz funk fans embraced Level 42 also though 😏

[Bean9seventy]

Just now, Steve Browning said:

@Bean9seventycan you tell us a bit about your history and gear? You will probably say you already have but I'd be interested to see it all in one, precise post (which reads as an insult but isn't meant to be).

my gear history is not pro & great , never played any kind of fender until 1991 not even a copy,,  

 

in those days you got a deal ,, "they" would indorse pro gear & know how 

its like in the 70s you did not need qualifications to work,

, you did not need "all the pro gear" to get a deal ,

 

Fender Basses were never an instrumental we would rate >>

[Steve Browning]

6 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

my gear history is not pro & great , never played any kind of fender until 1991 not even a copy,,  

 

in those days you got a deal ,, "they" would indorse pro gear & know how 

its like in the 70s you did not need qualifications to work,

, you did not need "all the pro gear" to get a deal ,

 

Fender Basses were never an instrumental we would rate >>

 

I'm just interested in what you were playing and the gigs you were doing. You seem to have an interesting history. I was into a band called Upp at this kind of time. No slapping involved, so not really anything relevant to the thread (and Stephen Amazing - bass player - used a Jazz with flats.

 

No, an idea of what you were using would be interesting. It could have been an Audition but that's unimportant.

[Bean9seventy]

4 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Good - there were several (probably 10 others) - the lead singer of one was Jaki Graham who became famous as a solo R and B singer in the 80s. Another similar was Ruby Turner though she was more traditional 60s R and B. Another local funk band, Rainmaker, was the support act on Stanley Clarke’s first tour - and yes when we heard Schooldays for the first time, and live - I was blown away by the bass sound and playing (pity he dropped and broke his double bass though……..)!! 
 

However the Brit funk thing was based firmly in the south east and grew out of the dance scene - that was part of the initial audience for bands like Freeze and Level 42 - the jazz funk fans embraced Level 42 also though 😏

with all that said & agreed / or not  ,,,, those jazzy dizzy disco funky guys some actually Owned marcus miller as you call him on the floors IN 78 , backed by robbie vencent as lonnie liston smith would sometimes go to Demark Street , as bass players ,

 

the younger crew like myself were now looking for our own bass , fed up of bass hoping , & as i say ,, walked away from Fenders,, as tho they were not even in the shop , Fenders were never on the shopping list 

[Bean9seventy]

1 minute ago, Steve Browning said:

 

I'm just interested in what you were playing and the gigs you were doing. You seem to have an interesting history. I was into a band called Upp at this kind of time. No slapping involved, so not really anything relevant to the thread (and Stephen Amazing - bass player - used a Jazz with flats.

 

No, an idea of what you were using would be interesting. It could have been an Audition but that's unimportant.

yeah man i read that ,, & that is what we are doing ,, walking through. gear

 

Q why Fenders were never the gear of choice for the early funk boppers

with examples 

[Steve Browning]

7 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

yeah man i read that ,, & that is what we are doing ,, walking through. gear

 

Q why Fenders were never the gear of choice for the early funk boppers

with examples 

 

I don't want to argue but you've only said what you weren't using up to now.

 

I seem to recall an early interview with Mark King somewhere he talks about the ergonomics of a Fender not being conducive to slap bass. Didn't Jaydee basses have some groove on them, to accommodate the plucking by the right hand? probably totally wrong but I have that vague memory.

[Steve Browning]

Of course, if you mean funk generally, then the Funk Brothers main man used a Precision and Bootsy played a Jazz.

[skankdelvar]

9 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

Q why Fenders were never the gear of choice for the early funk boppers

 

Was it because this was the period when lots of players were switching to Arias and Yamahas and other non-Fender stuff?

[Bean9seventy]

Just now, skankdelvar said:

 

Was it because this was the period when lots of players were switching to Arias and Yamahas and other non-Fender stuff?

Nope ,, ;D

 

tho we accept the rabbit hole ,, insomuch as

Mark King worked in a top shop so "like you say" noticed

no pick up on fender sales ,, "all" the alternatives were checked "seriously out instead

 

the basic reason Guys,, ""Drum roll"" ,,  was cosmetic ,,,

 

its why i spent at lot of time chasing the marcus miller spate to its origin

[skankdelvar]

2 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

Nope ,, ;D

 

tho we accept the rabbit hole ,, insomuch as

Mark King worked in a top shop so "like you say" noticed

no pick up on fender sales ,, "all" the alternatives were checked "seriously out instead

 

the basic reason Guys,, ""Drum roll"" ,,  was cosmetic ,,,

 

its why i spent at lot of time chasing the marcus miller spate to its origin

 

Interesting... I'd drop you a Thanks reaction but I'm ↓

 

[Steve Browning]

Have one on me.

[skankdelvar]

3 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Have one on me.

 

Thanks Steve! 👍

[Bean9seventy]

Just now, Bean9seventy said:

Nope ,, ;D

 

tho we accept the rabbit hole ,, insomuch as

Mark King worked in a top shop so "like you say" noticed

no pick up on fender sales ,, "all" the alternatives were checked "seriously out instead

 

the basic reason Guys,, ""Drum roll"" ,,  was cosmetic ,,,

 

its why i spent at lot of time chasing the marcus miller spate to its origin

Brit Funk in its purest form is born on the dance floor Right ? 

 

& these Jazzy Funky Soul Guys had rules ,, so

 

1st , since Brit Funk was a brand new thing ,, its conception of a perfect bass

saw in its birth vision

 

a balanced coustom bass, like their clothes, sperate looking

 

Twin Octaves ,, like stanley clarke ,, makes it easier to play the bass solo of eg ? Brazilian Love Affair  

 

Finally

 

The Fender Bass was so strongly connected to Pop music & Rock Bands / Punk we would not even touch them ,,

sometimes we would look just to see if fender made a twin octave bass yet

to us a bass ending at Eb sucked

[Stub Mandrel]

Hi Tension seem to have used Fenders in 1978.

 

 

 

[Reggaebass]

Didn’t the Sex pistols use a precision 🙂

[Bean9seventy]

1 minute ago, Bean9seventy said:

Brit Funk in its purest form is born on the dance floor Right ? 

 

& these Jazzy Funky Soul Guys had rules ,, so

 

1st , since Brit Funk was a brand new thing ,, its conception of a perfect bass

saw in its birth vision

 

a balanced coustom bass, like their clothes, sperate looking

 

Twin Octaves ,, like stanley clarke ,, makes it easier to play the bass solo of eg ? Brazilian Love Affair  

 

Finally

 

The Fender Bass was so strongly connected to Pop music & Rock Bands / Punk we would not even touch them ,,

sometimes we would look just to see if fender made a twin octave bass yet

to us a bass ending at Eb sucked

circa 1976

the 1st bass i used ,, not owned

had flat wound strings as standard

was used by owner for reggae ,,

nb, its not a (pop band/ rock band) Fender

i leaerned how to pop the strings on this ,,, but had yet to see thumb & pop

[Bean9seventy]

2 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Hi Tension seem to have used Fenders in 1978.

 

 

 

The bass player from atmosphere also used a fender ,, so we got 2 guys out of about 10 ,, we need to go down this rabbit hole , so we can understand the down turn in Fender, remember this down turn, is from the look of fender & what it represented ,, to us it was an ultimate pro rock machine,

[RhysP]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

 

I don't want to argue but you've only said what you weren't using up to now.

 

I seem to recall an early interview with Mark King somewhere he talks about the ergonomics of a Fender not being conducive to slap bass. Didn't Jaydee basses have some groove on them, to accommodate the plucking by the right hand? probably totally wrong but I have that vague memory.

The series two basses have what became known as the "Funk Groove", but Mark's original Jaydee didn't have this feature.

Having owned many basses over the years, including a series two Jaydee, I can honestly say I never found the funk groove to make any difference whatsoever, and I used to play a LOT of slap.

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

 

I was into a band called Upp at this kind of time. No slapping involved, so not really anything relevant to the thread (and Stephen Amazing - bass player - used a Jazz with flats.

 I recall seeing Upp live in the mid 70s - excellent band - I seem to recall that as with Phil Collins and Brand X, Upp started with some involvement from Jeff Beck. 
 

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

 

Was it because this was the period when lots of players were switching to Arias and Yamahas and other non-Fender stuff?

 

Yes - following on from the Japanese Fender copies, there was lots of choice of bass in the late 70s, early 80s. Basses to have in the late 70s were Musicman, Alembic (though the latter were the preserve of star players owing to their fearsomely expensive price) and Wals. 
 

Fender had ceased to be the bass of desire for aspiring musicians in this genre in the late 70s, from my point of view because clean, fat sound was required - a Jaco sound was a holy grail (without the fretless mwah) - the Ibanez Musician gave another option from the early 80s (though also expensive, nowhere near Alembic territory though the sound was in the same region). Arias also early 80s. They were all active basses - Fender didn’t make an active bass until the early 80s - I didn’t rate it either (neither did the music press). 
 

Also remember keyboards we’re taking over as the instrument of choice in the early 80s. 
 

1 hour ago, Steve Browning said:

Of course, if you mean funk generally, then the Funk Brothers main man used a Precision and Bootsy played a Jazz.

 

The funk brothers would not have been considered as playing funk by the late 70s (in fact no one knew of them outside Motown circles). Bootsy was certainly funk but I don’t think he was playing a Jazz by the late 70s. 

Edited January 1, 2022 by drTStingray

[Bassassin]

19 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Didn’t the Sex pistols use a precision 🙂

Glen Matlock played a Rick, some of the time at least. I think Sid might've used a Precision, but more for hitting punters than playing.

 

Re the funkage, it wasn't my scene during the era @Bean9seventyis relating, but I did become a massive MK/L42 fan/copyist from about '83/4 and remember he was such a regular interviewee in the old Making Music freesheet that it became known colloquially as Mark King Music. The point is, many of the anecdotes in this thread were related by the man himself in those interviews so me (and probably one or two other BCers) are familiar with the fact he was a drummer from the IoW who blagged a job selling basses in Macaris, & that he got his first JayDee because he couldn't afford an Alembic but an s/h JayDee turned up in the shop, and it looked a bit like an Alembic.

 

Apropos of nothing - I did buy a Washburn B20 from Macaris during the time he would've been working there, and it might or might not have been him wot sold me it. The point however, is that I sold that bass a couple of years later because the position of the neck pickup right up against the end of the fretboard made it nigh-on impossible to play Mr Pink on.

 

And that's the circle of life, or something.

[Bean9seventy]

12 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

The bass player from atmosphere also used a fender ,, so we got 2 guys out of about 10 ,, we need to go down this rabbit hole , so we can understand the down turn in Fender, remember this down turn, is from the look of fender & what it represented ,, to us it was an ultimate pro rock machine,

Fender had a 100% good thing going on Guitar tho,  the pitch they did with The Brothers Johnson worked 1000%

 

the new lastest body-fit curve fender guitar, was endorsed, yes even i had a go

 

but the bass ?  we were looking for something sperate, with twin octaves please ??

 

massive drum roll for this guys ,,,,,,,,

 

my 2nd bass i used ,, but never owned

this is when i 1st see thumb & pop,

right out of the bootsy gig as FACT

& become addicted ,, like Smack

before this time i was just a casual player

  B,A,N,G ,,,,,,,

The Mother Ship Connection its Self , Bass of Basses

The closet thing we have to Larry Graham as an instrument

the bass that starts the face of brit funk , OMG 

the bass before level 42

[ezbass]

28 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

 

There's one of these for sale in a secondhand shop in Perth at the moment for £699 IIRC.

[Bean9seventy]

1 minute ago, ezbass said:

There's one of these for sale in a secondhand shop in Perth at the moment for £699 IIRC.

 

1 minute ago, ezbass said:

There's one of these for sale in a secondhand shop in Perth at the moment for £699 IIRC.

i had one for a year or so in the 1990s , on my wish list still obviously

 

but yet ,, at that time 77/78 so / the hayman was perfect, but still had a fender shaped body ? ;D ,, we were that tight on looks ,

 

the Key guys tho is the headstock ,,

we do not want the typical slope diagonal 4 key headstock ,, looks are everything to us

 

we want the 2 x 2 key "balanced" headstock , like this ,,

another bass i played , only once or twice ,, but never owned

a Guild ,,,,