Level 42 Before Level42

[Hellzero]

 @Bean9seventy : If you could type, because you are not writing at all, some clear well structured sentences, it would be very helpful as there is some really useful information in the coded messages.

 

Deciphering these chaotic amount of words is quite tiring, even if it's interesting.

 

Make an effort, be concise, precise and structured, which should be the case as you program drum lines, but doesn't seem that obvious.

 

There's always a before for everything in the universe, but something can become a catalyst and Mark King was one of those, clearly using his jazz rock, that was not yet called fusion, roots and adding a very personal drumming style slap that was and still is really different from whatever you can hear when it comes to slap.

 

That said his fingerstyle playing is really terrific too and too many people seem to forget it.

 

He also knows Indian music a lot.

 

If you were there at the beginning, as you seem to tell us, you certainly know that there was no singing intended, but that it was the triggering factor that really launched Level 42 and Mark King.

 

Mark King also didn't know that the Gould brothers were excellent lyricists, but that's another story.

[Grimalkin]

So Macari's won't have a physical presence in Denmark St anymore. It's over.

[RhysP]

42 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

So Macari's won't have a physical presence in Denmark St anymore. It's over.

Macari's has been closed for a while now, it's not a recent thing.

[Grimalkin]

3 minutes ago, RhysP said:

Macari's has been closed for a while now, it's not a recent thing.

 

The sun hasn't gone down on Macari's quite yet, they have a shop in West Sussex.  Keeping it running in the family.

[lowdown]

7 minutes ago, Grimalkin said:

 

The sun hasn't gone down on Macari's quite yet, they have a shop in West Sussex.  Keeping it running in the family.

 

Probably importing cheap Instruments from the far east as well....and doing it the Chinese Way.

[Grimalkin]

I have been transfixed by this thread. There's something about it.

[Bean9seventy]

13 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Really? And yeah - having been asked to play a couple of Santana bass lines from the mid 70s he played some very tricky stuff - I found it quite difficult to play some of it tbh.

 

I misunderstood Bean9Seventys posts thinking it was Pops Popwell…… to be fair it does sound similar, presumably because of the playing style and use of a Precision. 

popswell was the guy with the tone, "everything else happened after that ,, even marcus miller was an unknown in 78 ,,

 

if i was not for chris hill, froggy, robbie vincent , etc  marcus miller would still be an unknown today basically 

[Bean9seventy]

21 hours ago, Ricky 4000 said:

Interesting. I thought MK lived on the IOW, and he and the rest of the band were learning their trade on the holiday camp circuit over there, before they made it to the big time.

 

So I suppose MK worked in Macari's before all that...?

no ,, & i am not telling the story ,, i just explain the outline 

[Bean9seventy]

28 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

Probably importing cheap Instruments from the far east as well....and doing it the Chinese Way.

 

29 minutes ago, lowdown said:

 

Probably importing cheap Instruments from the far east as well....and doing it the Chinese Way.

very difficult for the shop , ASB rate outside its doors was one of the highest in the UK ,

so bad i often joke it was great the crack heads won the drugs war against the ilegal meths heads, who at times ? well guys , not great , Demark st is not the same ,, its an empty shell

[Bean9seventy]

4 hours ago, Hellzero said:

 @Bean9seventy : If you could type, because you are not writing at all, some clear well structured sentences, it would be very helpful as there is some really useful information in the coded messages.

 

Deciphering these chaotic amount of words is quite tiring, even if it's interesting.

 

Make an effort, be concise, precise and structured, which should be the case as you program drum lines, but doesn't seem that obvious.

 

There's always a before for everything in the universe, but something can become a catalyst and Mark King was one of those, clearly using his jazz rock, that was not yet called fusion, roots and adding a very personal drumming style slap that was and still is really different from whatever you can hear when it comes to slap.

 

That said his fingerstyle playing is really terrific too and too many people seem to forget it.

 

He also knows Indian music a lot.

 

If you were there at the beginning, as you seem to tell us, you certainly know that there was no singing intended, but that it was the triggering factor that really launched Level 42 and Mark King.

 

Mark King also didn't know that the Gould brothers were excellent lyricists, but that's another story.

jazz rock that was not yet called fusion ,, jeff lorber ?

Paul Trouble Anderson

UK funk & everything it envelopes was born on the dance floors , not in a college, 

 

 

[Newfoundfreedom]

I was watching a documentary on YouTube last night about people trying for years to crack the Cicada 3301 code. 

 

This thread kind of reminds me of that. 

 

 

[Doddy]

33 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

popswell was the guy with the tone, "everything else happened after that ,, even marcus miller was an unknown in 78 ,,

 

if i was not for chris hill, froggy, robbie vincent , etc  marcus miller would still be an unknown today basically 

To be fair, by '78 Marcus was already making a name for himself by touring and recording with people like Bobbi Humphrey and Lenny White, so I'm not sure that's all strictly true.

[drTStingray]

12 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

jazz rock that was not yet called fusion ,, jeff lorber ?

Paul Trouble Anderson

UK funk & everything it envelopes was born on the dance floors , not in a college, 

 

 

Yes Return to Forever was still considered jazz rock in the mid 70s - but pieces like Sorceress were pure funk. I saw the Jeff Lorber band at Pizza Express Soho, about five years ago - what a fabulous gig (and on a par with the Fatback Band at Ronnie Scott’s, NYE I think 2019 - just pre Covid). 

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, Grimalkin said:

 

The sun hasn't gone down on Macari's quite yet, they have a shop in West Sussex.  Keeping it running in the family.

At least they didn’t move to Kansas City, and can still employ the services of a milkman if they so desire. 

[drTStingray]

For the uninitiated, Mark King was originally a drummer - worked in a London music shop (Macaris says @Bean9seventy) - the IOW stuff predated this AIUI. It was only when someone pointed out to me he was playing drums on bass that I suddenly got the principle. He borrowed a Gibson (EB2?) bass for their first recording session doing Love Meeting Love. The band I was in at the time covered that song (I think the keyboard player had a 12” single of it). MK was turned on to the Jaydee Supernatural bass by Gary Barnacle’s (sax player who played with them and recorded with them - did lots of sessions in the 80s) brother’s white Jaydee. 
 

If you buy Stuart Clayton’s excellent tab/manuscript books on Level 42 there’s a lot of info on the band history and Mark’s instruments. 

Edited December 27, 2021 by drTStingray

[Bean9seventy]

4 minutes ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

I was watching a documentary on YouTube last night about people trying for years to crack the Cicada 3301 code. 

 

This thread kind of reminds me of that. 

 

 

i might as well be a time traveller since few people were even born in the 70s

the IBM they talk about was from 1975 ? ,, which is a year before 1976,  a big year in america because it was exactly 200 years old, 1776 - 1976 CMOS U.S

 

So windows 11 wants a new TPC & also change the Bios from "Legacy" to E1 / ?

jOHN tALL bUTT

 

 

 

[Hellzero]

23 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

jazz rock that was not yet called fusion ,, jeff lorber ?

Paul Trouble Anderson

UK funk & everything it envelopes was born on the dance floors , not in a college, 

 

 

Ye„»s %\| to B fair „„don't give «“”sh*t cant U "rite somt underst„“„dable ? „„

[Grimalkin]

11 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

At least they didn’t move to Kansas City, and can still employ the services of a milkman if they so desire. 

 

 

[Bean9seventy]

14 minutes ago, Doddy said:

To be fair, by '78 Marcus was already making a name for himself by touring and recording with people like Bobbi Humphrey and Lenny White, so I'm not sure that's all strictly true.

Really ? just be cause you see the name it will not mean they were household names

 

in 1978 no one knew who marcus miller was in the UK ok ?,, It was Lonny Liston Smith ok ? Checkmate ,

 

do not listen to college stories, myths, gentryfied tales  

[NikNik]

2 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

So Macari's won't have a physical presence in Denmark St anymore. It's over.

 

[drTStingray]

16 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

i might as well be a time traveller since few people were even born in the 70s

the IBM they talk about was from 1975 ? ,, which is a year before 1976,  a big year in america because it was exactly 200 years old, 1776 - 1976 CMOS U.S

 

So windows 11 wants a new TPC & also change the Bios from "Legacy" to E1 / ?

jOHN tALL bUTT

 

 

 

This forum is legendary for its quite elderly demographic so it’s probably the wrong place to be saying people weren’t even born in the 70s - too many of us actually were - even in the 60s (dare I say it - 50s)!!

 

Anyway 1976 is famous for lots of things but the most memorable were the hottest summer anyone could or can remember in the U.K., and of course, the introduction of the renowned Stingray bass 😀👍

Edited December 27, 2021 by drTStingray
Auto grammar correct program (sic) writer would justifiably have had a damned good thrashing from my English master!!

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, Grimalkin said:

 

The sun hasn't gone down on Macari's quite yet, they have a shop in West Sussex.  Keeping it running in the family.

I guess they're still livin' it up?

[Bean9seventy]

22 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Yes Return to Forever was still considered jazz rock in the mid 70s - but pieces like Sorceress were pure funk. I saw the Jeff Lorber band at Pizza Express Soho, about five years ago - what a fabulous gig (and on a par with the Fatback Band at Ronnie Scott’s, NYE I think 2019 - just pre Covid). 

we do noy buy "return to forever" or the missuagusghoo orcrester ,, thats college talk ,, their way of trying to steal the crown ,, it was born on the dance floors

 

thanks tho

[Doddy]

11 minutes ago, Bean9seventy said:

Really ? just be cause you see the name it will not mean they were household names

 

in 1978 no one knew who marcus miller was in the UK ok ?,, It was Lonny Liston Smith ok ? Checkmate ,

 

do not listen to college stories, myths, gentryfied tales  

I didn't say that Marcus was a household name in '78 (or even now). What I'm saying is that his session career was well underway at that point, so wasn't unknown around the NY studio scene. I don't think it's fair to say he'd be unknown if it wasn't for a couple of guys in the London scene.

[drTStingray]

I don’t know about college stuff but I think you’ll find it was born in Birdland and the like which crossed over - the dance floors was all T Connection etc etc doing what they wanted to do in the late 70s - the Brit stuff was a bit later? And drew on all that stuff. 
 

PS the prog rock beard strokers had gravitated to the likes of Return to Forever (and brought their girlfriends who liked the funky stuff) by the mid 70s - moving on to the likes of Brand X - if ever a concert showed the gulf in audience it was Herbie Hancock at the Birmingham Odeon circa 1978 - the first half was jazz - and the place was virtually empty - I was amazed (the bars must have been heaving) - the second half was funk and the place was full and dancing!!! 
 

The Brit Funk stuff must have really got going in 1980/81, @Bean9seventy?

 

I too have your misgivings about some about some of the ‘history’ taught in colleges and elsewhere but don’t chuck it all out the window!! The idea (which some people would have you believe) that Marcus Miller would use flatwound strings in the early 80s is plain barking - he had his bass modded to improve it (especially in the mid/top end) remember (or was that something I dreamed) 🥴

Edited December 27, 2021 by drTStingray