New rig recommendation

[Ander87]

Hey guys,

 

So I play punk rock and neosoul in two bands. I have a Darkglass DG210N and a Microtubes 500v2. Fancy piece of kit with cab sim, compressor, EQ, different distortions, etc.

 

I introduced a HX Effects recently and find myself using the compressor, distortion and effects built in there, making my DG rig redundant in many ways.

 

I thought I'd simplify my amplifier rig with a different setting since...

 

Amp wise:

 

* Attracted to coming back to Eich with a T-500. I had a T-900 and loved the headroom - it was pretty sterile but lots of quality and punch/body - I don't mind that it's that 'clean' since I'd be using the HX effects for the Ampeg and Darkglass B7k built in etc etc

 

* Potentially Aguilar, either TH500 or AG700... I know these amps are much more coloured, and I don't need the drive circuit, but this amp seems very well suited to my genres?

 

Cab wise:

 

* Tecamp 212, Aguilar SL212, 210, Barefaced Two10s or 2nd hand Barefaced.... Could an Eich 1210 be the answer? I feel pretty troubled there; I've always played 2x10s but I kinda feel I could do with more bass and body as in my bands bass drives the bands, but I don't want to miss on definition since I have pretty melodic parts and phrases too.

 

I would want to run my gigs with one cab alone, we often play small venues but have also done festivals and Scala etc so either 250w @ 8ohm with a great great cab, or my inclination to play safe, a 4 ohm cab so I can squeeze the full 500w of these amps

 

It interests me that it doesn't distort and takes well pedals and reproduces frequencies well.

 

Thoughts?

 

Ander.

 

PS: trying to ignore how bloody cool the Royal Purple SL 212/210 from Aguilar would look with my purple bass.... I really am trying.

 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Ander87

[Dan Dare]

You are looking to spend proper money on good quality gear. You simply have to try them. Don't listen to us or buy on recommendation alone. Fwiw re. your comments:

 

Aguilar TH500 is more coloured and a little less powerful than the AG700 (which I use). The AG700 is not totally flat/clean, but then nothing really is. It has only slight warmth, in my experience (even with the dirt knob full up, it's still not really coloured). Whether either/both would be any improvement on your DG is something you'll need to find out by demoing them side by side. Given that you never usually get back anything like what you have spent when you trade up/in, it may be most cost effective to keep the DG and use it 'plain'. There's no law that requires you to use all of its features if you don't need/want to.

 

12s don't necessarily give you more bass/body than 10s. They may (depending on quality) push more air, but efficiency and cab design is just as important. Again, you need to try stuff to find what works for you. A trip to a well-stocked shop (you're in London, so the Bass Gallery in Camden is an obvious suggestion) looks to be in order.

[Bunion]

This is proper rig… 

it laughs in the face of festivals!

[Ander87]

16 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

You are looking to spend proper money on good quality gear. You simply have to try them. Don't listen to us or buy on recommendation alone. Fwiw re. your comments:

 

Aguilar TH500 is more coloured and a little less powerful than the AG700 (which I use). The AG700 is not totally flat/clean, but then nothing really is. It has only slight warmth, in my experience (even with the dirt knob full up, it's still not really coloured). Whether either/both would be any improvement on your DG is something you'll need to find out by demoing them side by side. Given that you never usually get back anything like what you have spent when you trade up/in, it may be most cost effective to keep the DG and use it 'plain'. There's no law that requires you to use all of its features if you don't need/want to.

 

12s don't necessarily give you more bass/body than 10s. They may (depending on quality) push more air, but efficiency and cab design is just as important. Again, you need to try stuff to find what works for you. A trip to a well-stocked shop (you're in London, so the Bass Gallery in Camden is an obvious suggestion) looks to be in order.

 

Hey Dan, thank you...! You have very valid points and similar to what I thought in terms of taste of the Aguilars etc. Having the Darkglass all flat, in all honesty, feels like a waste of a great amp! Rather invest in having what I don't use.

 

Funny enough, I have found a great deal on an Eich T900 about same price as the T500 and couldn't resist pulling the trigger on it - I've had this amp before and always have loved the huge headroom I could pull out of it and the ease to dial the EQ in.

 

That means, I'm just open to cabs, which funny enough is more of a headache! I have either 600w at 8ohm or 900w on 4ohm. Both overkill for my use but rather have too much than too little, and I know the Eich is a base bass tone I can rely on for my taste.

 

With that in mind and looking around, seems like I have a Big Baby T available that'd do the 8ohm/600w thing, or go overboard with a Big Twin II @ 900w/4ohm; the second is definitely overkill but I'm very tempted/leaning towards this...

 

I fail the principle of trying the Barefaced amps (I've not done so before) but having found these 2nd hand I would not be losing money as these have great reputation. Having said that, I guess I'm opening the debate of 600w/1x12+ vs a 900w/2x10/12 etc and what cab would I want....

 

Judging from the blurb from Barefaced page and their customers / reviews here, seems like these guys would offer punch and crisp highs / definition on a 12" format.

 

PS I'm living in Northampton but pass by London here and there, would defo pop in for a try on my return in early January!.

 

Ander.

[Ander87]

16 hours ago, Bunion said:

This is proper rig… 

it laughs in the face of festivals!

 

Ah! Looks stunning! I am nonetheless looking into a slim/portable amp to take to rehearsals, and a one cab solution for gigs/festivals/everything.

 

Just gone for the Eich T900 which I used to put in my gigbag, that'll be something I'm looking forward to having again.

 

With that in mind, only the cab dilemma to solve as above  

 

Thanks!

[Dan Dare]

6 hours ago, Ander87 said:

 

Hey Dan, thank you...! You have very valid points and similar to what I thought in terms of taste of the Aguilars etc. Having the Darkglass all flat, in all honesty, feels like a waste of a great amp! Rather invest in having what I don't use.

 

Funny enough, I have found a great deal on an Eich T900 about same price as the T500 and couldn't resist pulling the trigger on it - I've had this amp before and always have loved the huge headroom I could pull out of it and the ease to dial the EQ in.

 

That means, I'm just open to cabs, which funny enough is more of a headache! I have either 600w at 8ohm or 900w on 4ohm. Both overkill for my use but rather have too much than too little, and I know the Eich is a base bass tone I can rely on for my taste.

 

With that in mind and looking around, seems like I have a Big Baby T available that'd do the 8ohm/600w thing, or go overboard with a Big Twin II @ 900w/4ohm; the second is definitely overkill but I'm very tempted/leaning towards this...

 

I fail the principle of trying the Barefaced amps (I've not done so before) but having found these 2nd hand I would not be losing money as these have great reputation. Having said that, I guess I'm opening the debate of 600w/1x12+ vs a 900w/2x10/12 etc and what cab would I want....

 

Judging from the blurb from Barefaced page and their customers / reviews here, seems like these guys would offer punch and crisp highs / definition on a 12" format.

 

PS I'm living in Northampton but pass by London here and there, would defo pop in for a try on my return in early January!.

 

Ander.

 

A pleasure. Hope it was some help. If you've gone for the Eich, that should serve you well and be plenty powerful enough and you can always use your fx to colour the sound to your taste. I suggested the Bass Gallery as your profile says you're London based. If you're in Northampton, you could take a trip to Bass Direct in Warwick. Not a million miles away. Go on a weekday when they're not busy and you can play with/try stuff to your heart's content.

 

Cabs tend to be more of a personal choice. I'm a PJB fan/user, but I don't think they'd be the best for your intended use and you'd need a lot of them to make a noise (I run up to five their 4x5 cabs depending on how loud I need to be). I like their clarity and the slight warmth of my AG700 complements them well. Whenever you audition cabs, do take your amp with you so you know how they will work together. Have fun. 

[status1]

Have a look at the GL lightweight cabs available from bass direct,ive got the 2-12 weighs in at 11 KGs I carry it in one hand ,amp head worth a look is the Galien Kruger 800 fusion,weighs less than my sandwich box,ive got a spare 500 watt fusion I’m thinking of off loading 

Edited December 28, 2021 by status1

[Ander87]

11 minutes ago, status1 said:

Have a look at the GL lightweight cabs available from bass direct

 

Ah, indeed I've noticed these - specially the 2nd hand AT 212 Slim, 900w @ 4ohm. Experiences on this? I had a tiny enclosure DB Elbee bass with my past Eich T900 and despite the spec handling it (2x10, 600w and 8ohm) it was 'farting out' / distorting when the bass was boosted - I know this is not the same, but for the price I am seeing on this GR AT212 I can get the Big Twin II. My point is I am not sure that the smallest, non ported enclosure is best to push out such high SPL/wattage.

 

As it stands, I guess I could do with a Big Baby 2 at 600w but I am more inclined to have a 2 driver design, more height to hear myself, more dispersion etc... For the price of the good quality 2x12 I've found at 8ohm, I might as well get the 4ohm versions at 2x12 too etc - even if I don't go past 10 o'clock on that volume... Not a problem since it's not a valve amp.

 

So...:

 

* GR AT212 Slim - carbon line 

* Barefaced Super Twin - I've been offered the Super Twelve T, that'd save me some £200 against the one below...

* Barefaced Big Twin II gen3 - probs what I'd consider top and best of my options

 

I would of course be open to an Eich 1210 if 2nd hand... And weight wise, the lower the better of course but I find up to 22kg reasonable, I drive to 'near venue' 90% of the time and from there my good band mates lend me a hand and/or I use a small trolley.

[Ander87]

12 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

If you've gone for the Eich, that should serve you well and be plenty powerful enough and you can always use your fx to colour the sound to your taste

Ah cheers Dan, definitely my angle!!

 

I have darkglass b7k, ampeg, sansamp preamps on the HX effects which is all I’d need, then add chorus reverb delay octaver where and if appropriate… all the colour I would want from the HX Effects, layered over a reliable/responsive/big headroom sound courtesy of the Eich/cab. 

[Mudpup]

1 hour ago, status1 said:

Have a look at the GL lightweight cabs available from bass direct,ive got the 2-12 weighs in at 11 KGs I carry it in one hand ,amp head worth a look is the Galien Kruger 800 fusion,weighs less than my sandwich box,ive got a spare 500 watt fusion I’m thinking of off loading 

Did you mean the GR ones? Can't find any GL ones on their site.....

[Ander87]

I assumed so and typed along that…!

[status1]

The GL cabs which are the light ones I also got the 1-12 to go with it but don’t need it really,also my other rig which isn’t to heavy is a couple of Vanderklay cabs great build quality and scarily awesome and in the bigger gigs festivals ect I use them with my trusted Trace Elliot SMX 350

[Dan Dare]

13 hours ago, Ander87 said:

Ah cheers Dan, definitely my angle!!

 

I have darkglass b7k, ampeg, sansamp preamps on the HX effects which is all I’d need, then add chorus reverb delay octaver where and if appropriate… all the colour I would want from the HX Effects, layered over a reliable/responsive/big headroom sound courtesy of the Eich/cab. 

 

There's a Tecamp 2x12 in the classifieds (not belonging to me or anyone I know). It's in Northampton, too. Worth a look?

[Ander87]

Hey Dan! Totally considered this actually. Having said that, I was too teased into the features and fame I’ve read about Barefaced to warrant giving them a try. Also it’s 500w at 8ohm where my amp delivers 600w. I’m 95% it’d be more than fine but I guess I want to play it safe and not feel like I’m overwhelming the cab on the long run. 
 

I think I’m too intrigued by the praise received by the BF BT2 to ignore this chance, Thinking about it I could always downgrade to a super twin or other amps. 
 

things I would’ve wanted to try or consider, the matching Eich 1210 and bergantinos essentially… but a good deal on a Big Twin is something I better not miss on…!

 

Will report on it once I pull the trigger. 
 

Best,

 

Ander. 

[Downunderwonder]

7 hours ago, status1 said:

GL

Someone has swapped the L and R around on your keyboard.

 

GR Aerotech. No?

[status1]

Yep that’s the baby,we’ll worth a look

[Ander87]

5 hours ago, status1 said:

Yep that’s the baby,we’ll worth a look

 

Yep! noticed this! they have the AT212 slim on sale, pretty attractive! No porting though, and I have had a mediocre experience with too small enclosures.

 

Not saying that's the case of GR at all, but my DB Elbee cab, 2x10, was farting out bassy notes with an ultra clean Eich T900 working at 600w / 8ohm. Even at 'slightly pushed' home volume levels, it would behave quite okay and sound nice and sweet but still, the moment you'd EQ bass/lo-mids over 2pm on the amp it's start distorting a bit...

 

They're fantastic weight and I am shocked we live in a world where a 2x12 can rate 900w and weight 12.9kg.

 

Tempting, very, but I think I've less likelihood to fail / more chances to success and not move/trade/deal gear back and forth with Barefaced. Or, at least for longer  

 

Best,

 

Ander.

[status1]

One of my Vanderklay 2-10 cabs is 1200 watts not to heavy either,ive allways been a fan of 2-12 bass cabs as I find they do wot a 10 inch  and 15 inch does sort of in between sort of thing,I used just the 1-12 GR cab which is 400 Watts and that kept up with the Marshall cabs the guitarists use,These are well worth a try they come with a 5 year garentee as well I didn’t go for the slim version as my flight case would’ve overhanged 

Edited December 29, 2021 by status1

[Nebadon2000]

On 26/12/2021 at 06:16, Ander87 said:

trying to ignore how bloody cool the Royal Purple SL 212/210 from Aguilar would look with my purple bass.... I really am trying.

All your possibilities are excellent products but why not get your 2x12 Royal Purple 4 ohm version and AG700 [stable at 2.67 ohms] so you can add another 8 ohm 1x12 if ever needed

This setup will sound completive to anything you look at similar price and should keep you rocking for years to come.

 

PS: If you add the 1x12 to mix you can use it for rehearsal and small club, the 2x12 for medium club and both for large/Festival if for some reason your don't have FOH support😀

Edited December 31, 2021 by Nebadon2000

[Ander87]

On 31/12/2021 at 12:55, Nebadon2000 said:

All your possibilities are excellent products but why not get your 2x12 Royal Purple 4 ohm version and AG700 [stable at 2.67 ohms] so you can add another 8 ohm 1x12 if ever needed

This setup will sound completive to anything you look at similar price and should keep you rocking for years to come.

 

PS: If you add the 1x12 to mix you can use it for rehearsal and small club, the 2x12 for medium club and both for large/Festival if for some reason your don't have FOH support😀

 

Thank you!!

 

I ended up going for an Eich T900. I had very good memory of it, I had it a couple years ago and loved how portable it is and super super clear and responsive - this suits me considering I'm using the HX Effects for all the colouring (effects, Ampeg/Sansamp/Darkglass drives...).

 

I like Aguilar but had the feeling Eich would always give me a 'blanker' canvas to paint on.

 

On that note, I love the look of those royal purple Aguilars but haven't seen even regular 2x12's second hand.... and that's a hurting £1100 cheapest I've found...! I've seen a Barefaced Big Twin II and I'll be going for it.

 

It is a 900w behemoth at 4ohm alongside the Eich, but a 'better than FRFR' cab that I can even throw IR's through from the HX Effects - that way I can either colour or not or change my cabs setup or just use it without IR's/cabsims with the Big Twin II... after all it can even be used as a PA with that 30hz-20khz range... and I was offered it second hand which saves me a good pinch, £825 for a £1310 cab with cover.... I can't be more pleased!

 

Now I'm just doing maths to see if I can fit it in the boot of the CX-5 comfortably alongside the bass  

 

Best,

 

Ander.

[Nebadon2000]

2 hours ago, Ander87 said:

 

Thank you!!

 

I ended up going for an Eich T900. I had very good memory of it, I had it a couple years ago and loved how portable it is and super super clear and responsive - this suits me considering I'm using the HX Effects for all the colouring (effects, Ampeg/Sansamp/Darkglass drives...).

 

I like Aguilar but had the feeling Eich would always give me a 'blanker' canvas to paint on.

 

On that note, I love the look of those royal purple Aguilars but haven't seen even regular 2x12's second hand.... and that's a hurting £1100 cheapest I've found...! I've seen a Barefaced Big Twin II and I'll be going for it.

 

It is a 900w behemoth at 4ohm alongside the Eich, but a 'better than FRFR' cab that I can even throw IR's through from the HX Effects - that way I can either colour or not or change my cabs setup or just use it without IR's/cabsims with the Big Twin II... after all it can even be used as a PA with that 30hz-20khz range... and I was offered it second hand which saves me a good pinch, £825 for a £1310 cab with cover.... I can't be more pleased!

 

Now I'm just doing maths to see if I can fit it in the boot of the CX-5 comfortably alongside the bass  

 

Best,

 

Ander.

Well thought out sensibility works also🙂

[Ander87]

Hmmmm....! Yep I had a look at the data that I could understand and the articles from Barefaced...

 

I know myself and I won't be lugging more than one 2x12, I wanted a one cab solution - I'm really playing it safe as the DG 210 is fantastic, but since I'm selling the amp thought I'd refresh the cab.... Freq range, sensibility etc seems like Barefaced beats on all ends for that...

[Ander87]

On 27/12/2021 at 14:11, Ander87 said:

With that in mind and looking around, seems like I have a Big Baby T available that'd do the 8ohm/600w thing, or go overboard with a Big Twin II @ 900w/4ohm; the second is definitely overkill but I'm very tempted/leaning towards this...

 

Well, to reopen the debate, update and spice things up... Turns out the seller of the Big Twin II does have a Big Baby II, both gen 3, and is happy to sell me either.

 

This has now become one of those Big Twin II vs Big Baby II threads, welcome!

 

I have used the search button extensibly and I know I'll have the answer once I try them both end of this week, but thoughts are more than welcome!

 

I've read from folk that have had a play with a BB2 in a hangar with no PA, but I guess the pros are:

 

1. Portability (a BB2 will fit so easily on my car, easier than my current DG210n!)

2. Being so small I won't have trouble in using it for every gig as opposed to the 'use the house amp, your amp is too big' situations...

3. Weight is less important in that I drive 90% of the times I'm bringing a cab... but yes, we're looking at 22kg vs 12kg (cloth version BB2 vs grill BT2); it will be handy in one way or another, my bandmates won't need to help me load/unload and I won't have to pass by the venue to unload before looking for a parking spot...

 

Cons...

1. Of course it won't look as deadly as the BT2  which offers cons to the portability and usability mentioned before ('oh, sorry, too big an amp, use the house amp')

2. How's the dispersion of a 1x12? Especially against my experience with 2x10s... I know Barefaced mention the BB2 competes with 2x12s and 4x10s which sounds plenty especially as I'd be shooting 600w vs 250w, but it is still a 1x12... I wouldn't want to hear myself less than a 2x10 being that low/little?

 

With my amp I'd be running the BB2 @ 8ohm, 600w, or BT2 @ 4ohm, 900w... This is coming from a 500w amp @ 8ohm hence 250w out of the 2x10 cab where I would at most reach 5/10 volume...

 

I of course do not want to discard the BT2, I'm drooling for an authoritative stack like that and the confidence that I won't be ever needing any other cab, but the reality is I would be using PA out of the DI in 95% of gigs, the occasional 5% without PA will be for the neosoul/Rnb stuff ala Sofar Sounds / NPR Tiny Desk, the BB2 @ 600w should warrant enough on that end without a PA...

 

Thoughts?

 

Best,

 

Ander.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Ander87

[status1]

If you are using the pa most of the time just get a 2-12 as they do anything you want,As stated earlier the Gr 2-12 does it all and I went with the 1-12 to match and they are light as a feather 11 kg -7 kg respectively

[Mudpup]

If you're using the PA then a Big Baby 2 will be perfect. I use 2 of them for most gigs but its mainly for headroom on the amps and have happily done medium sized pub gigs with a Quilter BB800 with a single cab. Easy to cart about, useable at home and sounds fab - go for it.....