FirstBass Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Hi All I made a boo boo with my lovely little Genz Shuttle 3.0 I was mildly drunk and testing a speaker using leads with spade connectors on the ends and one fell off and earthed on the front of the amp It went quiet and then the standby light went red for a while and then back to blue Phew!..... I thought I turned it on later that evening and with the mute switch engaged or any 3 of the tone shaping buttons I get a hum through my cab It also spikes when turning on EQ works and there's plenty of volume on tap - its just the spike on startup and the hum when muted/tone shaped I'm pretty certain the answer will be "fecked mate", but ...... Is there anywhere in the UK that could repair it? I guess it all comes down to the cost. I didn't pay much for it, but it was my first "proper" amp and i'm rather attached to it I've had a look inside, but there's nothing obvious - it did have "that smell" though I'd appreciate any advice Cheers Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Real electronics is the place that springs to mind for repairs I think they do a lot of warranty and repair work for a few manufacturers so I believe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Drop @agedhorse a message. He is the oracle on GB kit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 That is a bad error to make, it damaged the power module because the chassis ground is not the same as any other "ground" in the amp when it comes to current routing. It's ground only for fault currents in order to protect against shock, and that particular accident forced about 30 amps into the protective earth circuit. A Fender authorized service center should have this part in stock or be able to get it from the Fender Europe depot, but I don't recall their part number for it. I have plenty of them in stock in the states as well, but shipping is a bit stiff, and it still needs to be installed by somebody who can fully test the amp for among other things that there's no damage to the safety ground/protective earth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 I have fixed my own Shuttle 6 after having a short on the power board. The power boards can be sourced independently, they're made by B&O under ICEpower brand. Really great boards and an industry standard, literally plug and play installation. No soldering required, I sourced mine from a supplier in HK via Ebay for about a hundred quid excl shipping. That was four years ago and there haven't been any issues since. Take a picture of the connections to use as a reference, before you take out the old board. https://icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/ Don't get sucked into the Fender supplier chain unless you really want to end up spaffing more cash for essentially the same result as you can probably do yourself. Alternatively you could get the fault traced and a component replaced...probably a power cap if volume is just the issue. But check fuses first. But you might end up spending the same if not more as simply replacing the whole module and keeping the other for spares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstBass Posted January 6, 2022 Author Share Posted January 6, 2022 thank you everybody for your suggestions I'm pretty sure it'll cost more than its worth to bring it back to life, but it definitely has sentimental value. I'll shove it in a cupboard for a few months whilst i mourn my loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) Definitely not a cap, not from that fault. Also not fuses. These modules are not designed to be repaired, specifically in the EU where repairs to the power supply would require additional safety testing including hi-pot and residual (leakage) current certification. Most IcePower modules sold out of China are counterfeit. The failure rates are unbelievably high. Sometimes you get lucky, but usually not. The quality of the ones I have seen are abysmal, do net meet many specs and most fail within a couple of days if they power up at all. The Fender sourced modules are guaranteed to be genuine, and are reasonably priced when they are in stock at the Fender-Europe depot. Edited January 7, 2022 by agedhorse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 3 hours ago, agedhorse said: Definitely not a cap, not from that fault. Also not fuses. These modules are not designed to be repaired, specifically in the EU where repairs to the power supply would require additional safety testing including hi-pot and residual (leakage) current certification. Most IcePower modules sold out of China are counterfeit. The failure rates are unbelievably high. Sometimes you get lucky, but usually not. The quality of the ones I have seen are abysmal, do net meet many specs and most fail within a couple of days if they power up at all. The authentic modules are made in China too, that's why they're so cheap. Mine worked fine first time and it was visually identical to the one it replaced. Your theory doesn't match my experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted January 7, 2022 Share Posted January 7, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, Kiwi said: The authentic modules are made in China too, that's why they're so cheap. Mine worked fine first time and it was visually identical to the one it replaced. Your theory doesn't match my experience. I can guarantee 100% that IcePower modules have NEVER been made in China, Hong Kong or Taiwan. This is absolutely fact, I have worked with the company and it’s products for close to 20 years and I have the legal country of origin documents for those models. Counterfeits look the same, they test different and do not meet the same performance, safety and EMC standards. You were lucky your module worked, it’s really just that simple. Edited January 7, 2022 by agedhorse 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 On 07/01/2022 at 23:11, Kiwi said: On 07/01/2022 at 20:05, agedhorse said: The authentic modules are made in China too Must be a very convenient lie they tell you to justify their 'competitive' pricing structure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstBass Posted January 10, 2022 Author Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) I contacted profusion here in the UK Wih VAT and carriage i'm looking at £144.13 (or a TC BAM200 new with VAT and postage for £117.50.....) I was always under the impression that these were 300W @ 4 ohm amps?????? Not 200w as per the "blurb" Hmmmmm...... what to do. Not sure I love it that much 😁 Edited January 10, 2022 by GlamBass74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 26 minutes ago, GlamBass74 said: I contacted profusion here in the UK Wih VAT and carriage i'm looking at £144.13 (or a TC BAM200 new with VAT and postage for £117.50.....) I was always under the impression that these were 300W @ 4 ohm amps?????? Not 200w as per the "blurb" Hmmmmm...... what to do. Not sure I love it that much 😁 Mine was less than the quoted power as well. I believe the preamp adds gain but I'm not totally sure. Anecdotally, there's no difference in volume compared to the other one I have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 The 200ASC module is capable of significantly greater power, the data sheet rating is conservative and does not consider some off sheet applications (specifically duty cycle management). In fact, the same module type is available in a larger version as well, the 200ASC shares very similar performance but without the off sheet enhancements. The power rating that was used by the test lab for CB scheme testing is 290 watts RMS into 4 ohms, there is another off sheet enhancement that brings this value to 310 watts RMS into 4 ohms as well. The larger model contains this last enhancement plus some additional thermal management allowing for 2.7 ohm operation in addition to 4 ohms. Either module will work properly in the Shuttle 3.0. Kiwi's module also has some off-sheet enhancements available, rated at 550 watts RMS into 4 ohms before the enhancements are applied. We actually worked with IcePower on the development of enhancements that were included in their more recent products and we hold a US patent specifically addressing some of these applications. One such enhancement involves the alteration of the current limit curves to better drive sub-nominal impedance loads without impacting operation. Another allowed Genz Benz to be the first company to develop ways for the larger module (used in our 900 watt amp models) to safely drive 4 ohm BTL loads even though the data sheet indicates this is impossible. This too was covered under our patent, and verified as safe by IcePower. Ironically, our competitors jumped on the bandwagon claiming that it was impossible, and that all of our amps would "blow up", when in fact it was entirely possible and the amps were incredibly reliable over many years. Handling factory service and support for all of North America, I typically see only 2 or 3 failed modules a year. In other parts of the world, the most common cause of module failure is the amp set on 115V and being plugged into 230V which is not the fault of the module. I have been designing with IcePower products for about 20 years, starting in the touring pro audio (expensive powered speakers) sector and later with bass and acoustic amp products. Designing with IcePower products when IcePower was young certainly has advantages (including a close working relationship with their engineering team). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstBass Posted January 13, 2022 Author Share Posted January 13, 2022 Right! ICEpower200ASC ordered from Profusion here in the UK www.profusionplc.com Remove all wiring connectors from the knackered, smelly board and note where they came from - took pics just in case Undo 5 nuts and remove along with spring washers CAREFULLY remove board with a bit of wiggling and patience Fit new board in the big, empty gap. Power cables may need a little shifting to get it in Breathe a sigh of relief when all the holes line up Refit washers and nuts and nip down. I dabbed a bit of my favourite nail varnish on the threads to act as a virtual thread locker Refit connectors Refit lid Connect up.... a quick pray and BINGO - we're all groovy So... not cheap, but not difficult The Shuttle 3.0 lives again Thanks to everyone for their input 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agedhorse Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Next time, leave the nail varnish off, it's not needed with the split lockwashers and can cause huge problems when you can't get the nuts off and snap the stud of the standoff or strip the screw on the standoff trying. Profusion parts are genuine, yes they are more expensive than what you see from China and Hong Kong on eBay/Amazon but they aren't counterfeit either. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstBass Posted January 14, 2022 Author Share Posted January 14, 2022 (edited) Next time? 😁 Edited January 14, 2022 by GlamBass74 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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