SteveXFR Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, lozkerr said: I'm surprised no-one's mentioned Skrewdriver yet... That's just reminded me of another far right punk, Michael Graves. Ex Misfits singer who pretty much made his living touring playing the songs he did with Misfits. He had his own songs but they were rather weak. A couple years ago he came out as a proud boy and proclaimed himself a "proud chauvinist". It's pretty much ended his career. The only support he got was from terrible nu-metal band Trapt who are also proud boys and had a hilarious social media melt down which pretty much ended their career. These days with social media bands need to be careful about sharing their personal beliefs, especially when they're racist or sexist or homophobic or all of them combined. Stephen Carpenter of Deftones shared his belief that the earth is flat. He was ridiculed but it didn't harm his career Edited January 8, 2022 by SteveXFR 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Venal Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, DawnPatroller said: How can you be non-binary when the basis of non-binary depends on there being a binary in the first place?? You know, two immutable biological sexes. I'm not getting into this again, don't worry. I'm non-binary, and I definitely exist. I suppose you can either find a way to fit that into your own belief system about gender, or you can choose not to, and operate on the assumption instead that I don't exist, which at least you wouldn't be alone in. You might find yourself on the same side of the argument as a bunch of people you wouldn't want to rub shoulders with. Also might be worth keeping in mind the argument is entirely about stuff which doesn't concern you, so if you go out of your way to go around telling people like me we don't exist, you're the one going out on a limb so to speak. Another thing to keep in mind, and of course this doesn't apply to most, but being binary trans is real flipping hard, and long. Like the waiting list just to get an appointment to start the process of transitioning is 3-5 years. A lot of people find it extremely daunting to think about attempting to pass as one thing or another. That's a lot of pressure to take on, especially when you're not getting any chemical assistance. If the idea of anything outside the binary makes you uncomfortable, keep in mind that a lot of those people might be on a journey and might end up more in line with your thinking when that's done, so cut them some slack in the meantime. Or they might not, that might just be what they are, which is really none of your concern. Anyway, peace and love and stuff. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, Sibob said: Just curious, it’s often cis straight white men who have the “yeah I see nothing wrong with offending others, I think it’s funny” type ethos, as we have often never experienced any real discrimination. While it’s a spectrum, and comedy will often ride the fringes (white men don’t have exclusive rights to offending people obviously), it’s a fine line between being able to laugh at ones archetypal beliefs and situations and experiencing straight-up racism/sexism/xxxxism ‘because it’s funny’ and ‘you just don’t get it’. Si I'm a heterosexual white man and I also have black friends and gay friends and I would find it offensive if someone called them the N word or a fag or whatever But sometimes the friends find some of the jokes etc funny I think it has a lot to do with how it's said and whose saying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 36 minutes ago, Vin Venal said: I'm non-binary, and I definitely exist. I suppose you can either find a way to fit that into your own belief system about gender, or you can choose not to, and operate on the assumption instead that I don't exist, which at least you wouldn't be alone in. You might find yourself on the same side of the argument as a bunch of people you wouldn't want to rub shoulders with. Also might be worth keeping in mind the argument is entirely about stuff which doesn't concern you, so if you go out of your way to go around telling people like me we don't exist, you're the one going out on a limb so to speak. Another thing to keep in mind, and of course this doesn't apply to most, but being binary trans is real flipping hard, and long. Like the waiting list just to get an appointment to start the process of transitioning is 3-5 years. A lot of people find it extremely daunting to think about attempting to pass as one thing or another. That's a lot of pressure to take on, especially when you're not getting any chemical assistance. If the idea of anything outside the binary makes you uncomfortable, keep in mind that a lot of those people might be on a journey and might end up more in line with your thinking when that's done, so cut them some slack in the meantime. Or they might not, that might just be what they are, which is really none of your concern. Anyway, peace and love and stuff. I don't really understand all the binary and non binary stuff and to be honest I don't care All I care about is if people are happy and not hurting others it's all good And if someone regardless of sexuality or colour is nice to me I'll reciprocate as I really don't care about the colour of the skin or the sexual orientation As my mum used to say there's good and bad in all 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) As I mentioned before, there’s a fine line! Causing offense could simply be someone speaking truth to another who experiencing cognitive dissonance about a given subject, the could be ‘offended’ by the truth. Someone who is pro slavery and economic control of minority communities will be ‘offended’ by Rage Against The Machine. Someone who simply does not like swearing in music might be equally offended but for vastly different reasons. So with that said, I think it might be fair to say that being offensive is fine, being a bigot is not. Si Edited January 8, 2022 by Sibob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sibob said: As I mentioned before, there’s a fine line! Causing offense could simply be someone speaking truth to another who experiencing cognitive dissonance about a given subject, the could be ‘offended’ by the truth. Someone who is pro slavery and economic control of minority communities will be ‘offended’ by Rage Against The Machine. So with that said, I think it might be fair to say that being offensive is fine, being a bigot is not. Si A bigot is someone who is intolerant of another holding a different option. Pretty much the entire planet these days. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, tegs07 said: A bigot is someone who is intolerant of another holding a different option. Pretty much the entire planet these days. Well, perhaps, but it depends how cyclical you want to be with definitions: “disapproving : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person” This initial definition kinda speaks to what you’re saying, although I think the word ‘unfairly’ is fairly key. Is it fair to suggest that someone who is intolerant of a pro-slavery position a ‘bigot’?Perhaps in some people’s eyes, but it might also be informed by the somewhat more defining addendum of: ”especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)” Si Edited January 8, 2022 by Sibob 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Sibob said: Well, perhaps, but it depends how cyclical you want to be with definitions: “disapproving : a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person” This initial definition kinda speaks to what you’re saying, although I think the word ‘unfairly’ is fairly key. Is it fair to suggest that someone who is intolerant of a pro-slavery position a ‘bigot’?Perhaps in some people’s eyes, but it might also be informed by the somewhat more defining addendum of: ”especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)” Si The important thing is to recognise the humanity in others. I know plenty that are so wedded to their own personal crusade that they dismiss others who have a different perspective. Having a different viewpoint or political agenda doesn’t make someone else a monster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 If you want an "official" list of offensive bands/songs, I give you the 'Filthy 15' as presented by the PMRC https://www.songfacts.com/category/pmrc-filthy-15-songs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyb625 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 55 minutes ago, Thunderbird said: I don't really understand all the binary and non binary stuff and to be honest I don't care All I care about is if people are happy and not hurting others it's all good And if someone regardless of sexuality or colour is nice to me I'll reciprocate as I really don't care about the colour of the skin or the sexual orientation As my mum used to say there's good and bad in all This is exactly my view as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, MacDaddy said: If you want an "official" list of offensive bands/songs, I give you the 'Filthy 15' as presented by the PMRC https://www.songfacts.com/category/pmrc-filthy-15-songs Hmm.. some terribly offensive songs in there! Also seem remarkably old - are they not all from the 80s, or is that when they stopped making lists? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Thunderbird said: I don't really understand all the binary and non binary stuff and to be honest I don't care All I care about is if people are happy and not hurting others it's all good And if someone regardless of sexuality or colour is nice to me I'll reciprocate as I really don't care about the colour of the skin or the sexual orientation As my mum used to say there's good and bad in all About 95% of the population will claim to be like this as well. Up until they get annoyed at something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just now, ubit said: About 95% of the population will claim to be like this as well. Up until they get annoyed at something. Yep your probably right sadly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Venal Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, tegs07 said: Having a different viewpoint or political agenda doesn’t make someone else a monster. Unless it does. Then it just does. See what I mean? Like, if you're a lovely person to hang out with, but you're a nazi, being a nazi definitely still makes you a monster. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Vin Venal said: Unless it does. Then it just does. See what I mean? Like, if you're a lovely person to hang out with, but you're a nazi, being a nazi definitely still makes you a monster. But a very snappy dresser. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ubit Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 @Supernaut https://www.quora.com/Why-do-German-WWII-uniforms-look-so-cool 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Vin Venal said: Unless it does. Then it just does. See what I mean? Like, if you're a lovely person to hang out with, but you're a nazi, being a nazi definitely still makes you a monster. Why do people always gravitate to extremes? I know some people that wouldn’t hang out with someone who voted Conservative or has strong Christian beliefs. It takes all sorts to have a cohesive society. Edited January 8, 2022 by tegs07 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, ubit said: @Supernaut https://www.quora.com/Why-do-German-WWII-uniforms-look-so-cool Because they were designed by Hugo Boss. True fact, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 15 minutes ago, tegs07 said: Why do people always gravitate to extremes? I know some people that wouldn’t hang out with someone who voted Conservative or has strong Christian beliefs. It takes all sorts to have a cohesive society. I'll pretty much be OK with anyone except paedophiles rapists and other scum of the earth you get the idea I could not care less what anyone else does/ is as long as they are happy and don't hurt others and obey with the law of the land etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tegs07 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Thunderbird said: I'll pretty much be OK with anyone except paedophiles rapists and other scum of the earth you get the idea I could not care less what anyone else does/ is as long as they are happy and don't hurt others and obey with the law of the land etc etc I think the important point here is intent to cause harm, which kind of links back to the topic title. If the motive behind a band or song is to explicitly inflict suffering on another sentient being then it becomes problematic. This is why I can’t really forgive Coldplay. Edit: This is humour for those that get off on outrage on the internet and skim read words in order to affirm their own narrative. Edited January 8, 2022 by tegs07 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 Think we should all get back on topic as it would be a shame to get the thread locked I can't really think of anything else offensive music wise apart from the silly Roy chubby brown songs and comedy music like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Venal Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, tegs07 said: Why do people always gravitate to extremes? I know some people that wouldn’t hang out with someone who voted Conservative or has strong Christian beliefs. It takes all sorts to have a cohesive society. I'd be happy to hang out with a tory voter, but I wouldn't let them be around my kids unsupervised. And I'm fine with all religions until they start trying to ram it down my throat... 😉 Edited January 8, 2022 by Vin Venal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 I don't care what a person's religious or political beliefs are as long as they keep them to themselves. Unfortunately these days, no one seems to be able to do that, especially with politics. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, Vin Venal said: I'd be happy to hang out with a tory voter, but I wouldn't let them be around my kids unsupervised. And I'm fine with all religions until they start trying to ram it down my throat... 😉 I'm not a voter but let me get this right in an earlier post you made about being non binary etc I read it as that you found remarks about it being offensive and about how hard things were but now you've made a statement pretty much insinuating all tory voters do bad things to kids don't you see the double standards in the posts Just saying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 Unfortunately we live in a world of "free speech" so everyone will get offended by something be it whichever side of the fence you are and unfortunately you can't say X's opinion is wrong just because it differs to your ideals or beliefs? Because in their mind they are correct and their reasons for their opinions are no less valid than yours! TBH I couldn't give a flying F**k if your black, white, gay, straight or every other flavour in between if your a decent person then that's the most important thing to me! I try to keep my opinions to myself then I can't offend anyone but in this current climate it happens far to easily as this thread has proved 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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