Pub gig fees

[RhysP]

54 minutes ago, ubit said:

You try getting 5 plumbers out on a Saturday night for 4 hours and see what they charge you.

That's completely different.

I've needed a plumber a few times over the years, can't recall ever needing a pub band.

[Daz39]

7 minutes ago, RhysP said:

That's completely different.

I've needed a plumber a few times over the years, can't recall ever needing a pub band.

You might not need the band on an individual, marginal basis, but I'd argue society benefits from creative endeavour - it's just that society doesn't want to value it fairly.

[martthebass]

Around 250-300 in my neck of the woods also.  Pretty happy to do this as a weekend warrior and have generally accepted that as this has been the going rate for 20+ years on pub gigs that it's what you have to accept as a covers/function band when playing pubs.  However we get a fair number of requests to play out of area (we define that as a gig with a total travel time of >2hours) and we up the rate accordingly and don't accept if it's not worth it.

 

I'd hate to be doing this for a living though.....

[TimR]

5 minutes ago, Daz39 said:

You might not need the band on an individual, marginal basis, but I'd argue society benefits from creative endeavour - it's just that society doesn't want to value it fairly.

 

I'd argue its the creative endeavour that's increasingly missing in pub bands. 

 

People are paying big sums to watch bands play in Stadiums and for West End productions.

 

Not so for pub bands and am-dram local productions.

 

That's mainly the fault of the idiot-box cheap deliveroo food, which appeals to the lazy, but also a lot of pub bands have lazy set lists. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by TimR

[martthebass]

4 minutes ago, TimR said:

That's mainly the fault of the idiot-box cheap deliveroo food, which appeals to the lazy, but also a lot of pub bands have lazy set lists. 

 

Sadly, much of that is the fault of the pubs themselves.  As a 70s Glam Rock band we took some time to become established to the point where we decide where we play; many pubs expect/requested the eternal 'pub band' set in order to get the gig......sad but true. 

[itsmedunc]

That price is about right around the North West. I don't get why folk are complaining and shouting about £50 though? There's nobody twisting their arm. It's not forced labour 😂 A simple "no thanks" and then move on in life would suffice. The pleasantries of the internet. Again!

 

I can think of a number of originals bands (Well, they are "perceived" as bands), that pay their members £50 a gig despite the actual fee they receive. Some of these deps are treated like skivies too.

Some have been quite big in their day and still draw decent crowds and so, I should imagine a lot of folk would play the gig simply for nostalgias sake.

 

[TimR]

5 minutes ago, martthebass said:

 

Sadly, much of that is the fault of the pubs themselves.  As a 70s Glam Rock band we took some time to become established to the point where we decide where we play; many pubs expect/requested the eternal 'pub band' set in order to get the gig......sad but true. 

 

I've never had a landlord specify the songs in a set. In fact most pubs and audiences have commented on us not playing the tired 'old favourites' and like it that we play songs from the last 10 years that appeal to younger audiences. 

 

I suspect they just don't want a 70s Glam Rock band. That's a pretty specialist niche audience. 

[martthebass]

4 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

I've never had a landlord specify the songs in a set. In fact most pubs and audiences have commented on us not playing the tired 'old favourites' and like it that we play songs from the last 10 years that appeal to younger audiences. 

 

I suspect they just don't want a 70s Glam Rock band. That's a pretty specialist niche audience. 

 

Appears you've been lucky then.  In my neck of the woods a discussion on set list is fairly common. 

 

There's a reason for going niche - I've never been so busy...... 

[uk_lefty]

2 hours ago, ern500evo said:

Some of the replies he’s had have been so rude. 

Yeah that's a bit sad. Surely it's easier to ignore it rather than be rude to the guy, he's just trying to get a dep in.

[uk_lefty]

1 hour ago, redbandit599 said:

Coming out of Covid we took the decision as a band to quietly offer our existing landlords a lower fee for any gig before the end of 2021, we called it Covid Relief - we actually said we'd do gigs them for £120. (Would have been lynched on Facebook 😜) - but when those landlords asked us at the end of the night what the fee was - we said "Well usually £250/£300, but as you know we are offering you a cheapy at £120 to help out."

Every single one of them nodded, went off and came back with the full normal fee - one even paid us more... 

That's brilliant. 

[uk_lefty]

Suppose I shouldn't ever mention on Facebook that the only times I've ever depped (3 in total) it's always been for £0. Can't recall even being bought a pint, actually. Still, I enjoyed it and it helped out some friends, and that's why I did it.

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

I'd be concerned by a plumber who drew a crowd ...

Yeah, should be a graphic designer….

[ern500evo]

2 hours ago, spike said:

A similar thing happened with our band last year. We needed a dep drummer for a pub gig and our guitarist put ad on Facebook offering £80. We got loads of flak along the lines of how we were devaluing live music, stealing money from professional musicians, no decent musician in their right mind would take this gig etc. etc. , it went on for days.

 

In the meantime we were contacted by several drummers who were willing to do the gig and we ended up with a pro drummer who was honestly the best drummer I have ever played with but was happy to do the gig for £80 rather than just sit at home complaining on Facebook. A couple months later we offered him a wedding gig for three times the money.

 

There seem to be loads of 'professional' musicians on Facebook who don't seem to realise that pub gigs and functions are separate markets. If you are a pro musician who thinks that pub money is a threat to your livelihood you are in the wrong job IMO.

 

That is pretty much the same flak this guy was getting.  Stuff like “my function band doesn’t go out for less than £2k” yet when you point out that you’re probably not the market he’s aiming at then, you get a torrent of abuse! How some people don’t see the distinction between a pub covers band and a quality function band is beyond me. I remember seeing a promo vid of @EBS_freak band, it was a while ago now, but the professionalism and musical ability was outstanding. The guy asking if any local guitarist fancies earning £50, is clearly aiming at a different audience. At least you’d think it would be obvious 

Edited January 13, 2022 by ern500evo

[tegs07]

2 hours ago, ubit said:

You try getting 5 plumbers out on a Saturday night for 4 hours and see what they charge you.

The difference is you need the plumber and have called them yourself. Different than just wanting a pint. There are several bands and Musicians I pay to see live that aren’t chart material and play smaller venues. The audience finds them and they are on a totally different level than the average pub band.

Some examples of pub/free festival acts I have gone on to pay to see live:

 

Martin Harley 

Tankus the Henge

The Hamsters

Ozric Tentacles 

The Levellers

 

All quite a while ago now as I don’t actively seek out music like I used to when I was younger but the really good performers all found a paying audience 

Edited January 13, 2022 by tegs07

[MacDaddy]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

 

 

That's mainly the fault of the idiot-box cheap deliveroo food, which appeals to the lazy, but also a lot of pub bands have lazy set lists. 

 

Deliveroo is actually more expensive. Not only do you pay a delivery fee, you also pay more than the menu price.

[TimR]

15 minutes ago, MacDaddy said:

 

Deliveroo is actually more expensive. Not only do you pay a delivery fee, you also pay more than the menu price.

 

Other cheaper delivery food is available...

[tegs07]

1 hour ago, Daz39 said:

You might not need the band on an individual, marginal basis, but I'd argue society benefits from creative endeavour - it's just that society doesn't want to value it fairly.

There is some truth to this. France promotes and finances the creative industry more than we do in the UK including helping musicians with grants and radio airplay incentives. Has it had a massive impact on the artists careers or pushed French musicians to wider commercial success? Air, Daft Punk, Chinese Man, Gojira and Alcest spring to mind but there aren’t as many success stories as would be expected.

Edited January 13, 2022 by tegs07

[TimR]

1 hour ago, martthebass said:

 

Appears you've been lucky then.  In my neck of the woods a discussion on set list is fairly common. 

 

There's a reason for going niche - I've never been so busy...... 

 

Weird. The deepest discussion I ever had was naming a few of the typical songs from the list.

 

In fact the only time I've had discussions about what songs to play have been wedding or function sets. But even then usually the client had already seen us and knew what they were getting. 

 

The worst gig I ever played was a Royal British Legion gig where the 'Entertainments Officer' kept coming up during songs asking the band to play Beatles, rock and roll and Elvis. Despite us having the dance floor full all night playing our standard disco sets. 

 

Again, afterwards, people came up and said what a great night it was compared to the usual bands who just played Beatles, Rock n Roll and Elvis...

[ubit]

1 hour ago, RhysP said:

That's completely different.

I've needed a plumber a few times over the years, can't recall ever needing a pub band.

 

 

I'm talking about venues who quibble over a nominal fee. You are providing a service, Entertainment. Same as a plumber, he provides a service, fixing your leaks. It was a fun poke at charges. The joke has been well and truly killed now.

[TimR]

2 hours ago, redbandit599 said:

landlords asked us at the end of the night what the fee was - we said "Well usually £250/£300, but as you know we are offering you a cheapy at £120 to help out."

Every single one of them nodded, went off and came back with the full normal fee - one even paid us more...

 

I think we have discussed this already lots of times.

 

The Pubs have entertainment budgets directly from the breweries. It seems to be a standard fee. £250-300.

 

The pub doesn't have to cover your fee by selling more drinks, it's a separate payment. However, the landlord, if he's got any sense, will put on the bands that will draw a crowd and buy drinks, because he makes his money selling drinks. 

 

Unless, he's a massive Elvis fan and just keeps hiring an Elvis impersonator knowing his locals will be there anyway.

 

I guess anything you negotiate over that fee, the landlord makes up himself. Now that it's mostly electronic payments it's going to be difficult for that to happen.

Edited January 13, 2022 by TimR

[uk_lefty]

48 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

The difference is you need the plumber and have called them yourself. Different than just wanting a pint. There are several bands and Musicians I pay to see live that aren’t chart material and play smaller venues. The audience finds them and they are on a totally different level than the average pub band.

Some examples of pub/free festival acts I have gone on to pay to see live:

 

Martin Harley 

Tankus the Henge

The Hamsters

Ozric Tentacles 

The Levellers

 

All quite a while ago now as I don’t actively seek out music like I used to when I was younger but the really good performers all found a paying audience 

I saw Tankus the Henge in the centre of Kingston back when I lived there 2012ish. They were amazing. I've seen lots of originals bands live but they are one that grab your attention and are memorable still 10years later.

[MacDaddy]

[uk_lefty]

58 minutes ago, ern500evo said:

That is pretty much the same flak this guy was getting.  Stuff like “my function band doesn’t go out for less than £2k” yet when you point out that you’re probably not the market he’s aiming at then, you get a torrent of abuse! How some people don’t see the distinction between a pub covers band and a quality function band is beyond me. I remember seeing a promo vid of @EBS_freak band, it was a while ago now, but the professionalism and musical ability was outstanding. The guy asking if any local guitarist fancies earning £50, is clearly aiming at a different audience. At least you’d think it would be obvious 

My bands of recent years have done Weddings and Functions for good fees but also do the pubs because playing two sets in a pub is a doddle in comparison. You play for less time, set up is quick and easy, you can test out new songs, it's fun, you take a lot less money but if you're good people remember you and ask you to do their 50th birthdays, Weddings, etc. Unless they're turning away functions paying fantastic money every week then I don't see why they'd turn their nose up at pub gigs.

[ubit]

28 minutes ago, uk_lefty said:

My bands of recent years have done Weddings and Functions for good fees but also do the pubs because playing two sets in a pub is a doddle in comparison. You play for less time, set up is quick and easy, you can test out new songs, it's fun, you take a lot less money but if you're good people remember you and ask you to do their 50th birthdays, Weddings, etc. Unless they're turning away functions paying fantastic money every week then I don't see why they'd turn their nose up at pub gigs.

 

 

This what we did. The pub gigs would do week by week but we strove for the functions. ie weddings or parties. Much bigger payers because you were doing much more. As you say a couple or three 45 minute sets in a pub but functions meant you were maybe playing more or less the whole might unless you had a buffet which was a chance for a break. 

[EBS_freak]

19 hours ago, ern500evo said:

That is pretty much the same flak this guy was getting.  Stuff like “my function band doesn’t go out for less than £2k” yet when you point out that you’re probably not the market he’s aiming at then, you get a torrent of abuse! How some people don’t see the distinction between a pub covers band and a quality function band is beyond me. I remember seeing a promo vid of @EBS_freak band, it was a while ago now, but the professionalism and musical ability was outstanding. The guy asking if any local guitarist fancies earning £50, is clearly aiming at a different audience. At least you’d think it would be obvious 

Very kind of you to say.

 

When you see stuff conversations like this on facebook, it always makes my heart sink.

 

Function band -

 

Tend to carry around larger PA and light systems.

- As you are reach the more pro end, you factor in your own sound and lighting engineers (or hire them in).

- You may carry around two desks (one foh, one monitoring)

- You may carry around more pro wireless than your average band. Systems that tend to be 1k+ a unit. And that's for both mic and IEM units. Buying or hiring those doesn't come cheap. And then there's the shared mic license on top.

- Set up time can be astronomical and may involve many early starts and soundchecks

 

Promotional material

- Pro videos cost pro money, videographers, editing, colourists

- Pro audio cost pro audio in the studio... with the cost of engineers, mastering etc

 

Clothes

- Depending upon the band, there is a look that has to be adhered to. If you are doing an Abba band, you aren't going to get far without the outfits. I remember playing with an Elvis tribute. His clothes used to cost north of 2.5k an outfit. Function bands with everybody wearing matching suits... well, sometimes they have to be made because not everybody can fit in off the shelf for certain outfits... and a lot of time, the sort of things you see the top function bands wearing, aren't the sort of things you can just go into a shop and buy (they tend to be a bit ott spangly suits etc)

 

Additional costs

- Accountancy, Insurance, vans (either bought or hired), rehearsals, storage costs, travels costs tend to be higher. Factor in food and accommodation for band. Also, people don't seem to realise that you can spend hours speaking to client in order to land the deal... and then hours to finalise all the details of the event (which experience will tell me are mostly wishful thinking as events never run to plan)

 

All these costs are passed onto the client or part absorbed (for example, you may lower costs if there is a particular reason that it would be beneficial to take the gig).

 

Function bands turn to be run as a means to earn a wage in a professional capacity. Therefore the attitude should match. Loading in, your appearance, you language, attitude etc... is always part of how you are representing yourself. You have to have a plan for everything... what happens if the van breaks down. What happens if covid hits you. The contract has to be fulfilled.

 

 

Pub band -

 

Low risk.

 

Low financial input.

 

If I've got a date free and somebody was to ask would I like a gig playing a load of songs that are already in my repertoire for 50 quid and it's local, I'd probably consider it. All I have to do it turn up... maybe get introduced to some new players and build upon a network that could land me new work... well, there's worse things you could do to earn 50 quid.

 

I am sure there are loads of people that argue they put a lot of money into their pub appearances, rehearsals etc... but the key thing is, there's a load of people that don't. The fee doesn't tend to change whatever the pub band is turning up with.

 

Lots of players with a large repertoire can just sit in on a gig and busk it... and busk it a lot better than a lot of rehearsed bands. Even if a pub band has arrangements, give me a copy of the audio to listen to or the dots, I'll play it.

 

These folks complaining about fifty quids should spend their time working on getting better paying gigs than worrying about who's taking fifty quid gigs. On facebook, if the gig isn't for you, move on. Nobody taking a pub gig is "crippling" the industry. A pub is a pub. Pubs are never going to be able to pay function prices - nor should they - because the difference between the two is astronomical. And if you look at the differences between a pub band and a function... it's quite clear to see why function bands are the price they are (having said that, there are some function bands that are just taking the p1ss.) 

Edited January 14, 2022 by EBS_freak