Pub gig fees

[jezzaboy]

I was talking to my drummer mate and he said that the female singer in his pub band had left after kicking up a fuss about the fact that they were getting between £250 - £300 a gig in the Glasgow area. She left shortly after and they replaced her with a better male singer. She is now sitting in the house twidiling her thumbs.

 

The last pub gig I did was 3 years ago and the money varied from £170 to £300. The way things are with so many pubs closing or not bothering to do live music now, I would be happy to get £250 between us or £50 each to have a blast on a Saturday night.

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, jezzaboy said:

I was talking to my drummer mate and he said that the female singer in his pub band had left after kicking up a fuss about the fact that they were getting between £250 - £300 a gig in the Glasgow area. She left shortly after and they replaced her with a better male singer. She is now sitting in the house twidiling her thumbs.

 

The last pub gig I did was 3 years ago and the money varied from £170 to £300. The way things are with so many pubs closing or not bothering to do live music now, I would be happy to get £250 between us or £50 each to have a blast on a Saturday night.

I think pubs worked out long ago that there is more money in craft beer, locally sourced food etc than live music. Live music venues have been struggling for a long while. 

Edited January 13, 2022 by tegs07

[Happy Jack]

6 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Live music venues have been struggling for a long while. 

 

First there was the proper enforcement of drink/drive laws, then there was the banning of smoking. Both measures are entirely to be applauded and supported, but there's no ducking that they came damned near to killing off live music in pubs.

 

We've all fought back, of course, and live music is still out there, but it's way harder to get an audience to hit the bar at 8pm, drink & smoke steadily until chucking-out time, before stumbling into their Allegros and Cortinas ... it's only a short drive, I'll be fine, hic!

[tegs07]

34 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

First there was the proper enforcement of drink/drive laws, then there was the banning of smoking. Both measures are entirely to be applauded and supported, but there's no ducking that they came damned near to killing off live music in pubs.

 

We've all fought back, of course, and live music is still out there, but it's way harder to get an audience to hit the bar at 8pm, drink & smoke steadily until chucking-out time, before stumbling into their Allegros and Cortinas ... it's only a short drive, I'll be fine, hic!

There is also a wider choice of entertainment options, home cinema, healthier lifestyle, exorbitant cost of booze (you can fly to pretty much any European capital for the price of a round of drinks) etc etc 

[gareth]

10 years ago I was playing in a five piece pub covers band that went out for a minimum of £300 but more usually £400

 

Take in to account 10 years inflation can there be any doubt that pub gig rates have fallen?

 

Like people have said, function bands are a different story

[Nicko]

I haven't played a pub gig since pre-covid but the normal fee was around £250. 

 

I do have some sympathy with a dep player getting £50 though.  I did a dep for a the singer and guitarist from my previous band.  They still had maybe 50% of the set list that we'd done before and there was some additional stuff that my band and theirs played.  Even then I spent maybe 10 hours getting the ones I was rusty on and the new ones I had to learn up to speed, had one run through with the band and the played the gig (turn up at 7.30, pack up at midnight) so when you add the travel in I was getting £50 for around 20 hours work. 

 

If it hadn't been a favour to the guys I knew I wouldn't have done it.   I've always found gigging a necessary evil rather the reason to be in a band.  As a dep you get all the hassle of gigging and none of the fun of being in a band. 

[Happy Jack]

The whole 'hours worked' thing has always left me somewhat bemused.

 

I love playing bass. In fact, the only thing I love better than playing bass is playing bass for a genuine reason.

 

I love learning new material. In fact, the only thing I love better than learning new material is learning new material for a gig.

 

The idea of totting up how many hours I've 'invested' in playing bass, and then calculating the return on my investment, seems to miss the point rather. 

 

YMMV

 

[Doddy]

Has anyone mentioned the MU rates? They reckon that the fee for a pub band, playing for up to 3 hours, should be £129 each, plus you can add on travel, porterage and a late finish fee. 

[Happy Jack]

3 minutes ago, Doddy said:

Has anyone mentioned the MU rates? They reckon that the fee for a pub band, playing for up to 3 hours, should be £129 each, plus you can add on travel, porterage and a late finish fee. 

 

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

And that's why I have never joined the MU.

[Doddy]

5 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

And that's why I have never joined the MU.

I'm not in it either. I think their rates are totally out unless you're a solo artist.

I don't really do many pub gigs anymore, but I do think they should be paying around £100 each. 

 

[peteb]

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

 

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

 

And that's why I have never joined the MU.

 

1 hour ago, Doddy said:

I'm not in it either. I think their rates are totally out unless you're a solo artist.

I don't really do many pub gigs anymore, but I do think they should be paying around £100 each. 

 

 

The MU doesn't operate in an area that makes any sense at all to semi-pro musicians. If pubs had to pay a five piece band £500 for a bog-standard pub gig then it wouldn't be economically viable for landlords and there wouldn't be any gigs for semi-pro bands. 

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by peteb

[ern500evo]

1 hour ago, Doddy said:

Has anyone mentioned the MU rates? They reckon that the fee for a pub band, playing for up to 3 hours, should be £129 each, plus you can add on travel, porterage and a late finish fee. 

The FB ad which made me start this thread was full of people quoting MU rates 

Edited January 13, 2022 by ern500evo

[ern500evo]

I’ve just checked back in on the original Facebook post, it’s still ongoing and now has 712 comments! 😄

[gareth]

13 minutes ago, ern500evo said:

I’ve just checked back in on the original Facebook post, it’s still ongoing and now has 712 comments! 😄

Post a link please

[Downunderwonder]

13 hours ago, ubit said:

 

 

This is the thing, we were making something like £50/£60 each a night. Every band made the same. This other band came in and charged what equated to £30/£40 a night. Thats why we were annoyed. Pubs were giving them gigs and they were undercutting everyone else. Nothing illegal in that just morally annoying.

What you should have done is had all the other bands agree to invoice the difference on top of the usual to play the next weekend after The Cheapskates.

[Bassfinger]

We've had a couple of people express surprise at how inexpensive we are (we start at 300 sheets for a pub, but will do 250 for very local ones, or one we like). That prompted us to ask around what pubs are paying other bands, and as a result our fees are going to now start at 500 quid for pubs and clubs. The day after we decided this we got a booking and they didn't raise an eyebrow.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Bassfinger

[ern500evo]

10 hours ago, gareth said:

Post a link please

https://www.facebook.com/groups/depsuk/permalink/10158389653438021/

[TimR]

[lownote]

1 hour ago, Bassfinger said:

We've had a couple of people express surprise at how inexpensive we are (we start at 300 sheets for a pub, but will do 250 for very local ones, or one we like). That prompted us to ask around what pubs are paying other bands, and as a result our fees are going to now start at 500 quid for pubs and clubs. The day after we decided this we got a booking and they didn't raise an eyebrow.

It just doesn't make sense, I can't see how pubs make a profit even on a £250 band - like we are (2-300), let alone 500.  I know Covid's got in the way but our last two gigs we were playing to mostly our own supporters, which numbered around six people.  There were other punters in but would they have been there anyway? Shirley it depends on so many things: city/sticks, popularity of the band, size of venue, time of year.  Also, in many tiny pubs the band set up and their 'deafening radius' actually take a chunk out of the available boozing area. But then I don't run a pub so what do I know. My band mates have been gigging since the 1860s 1960s and they charge us at aforesaid 200-300 max.

[ern500evo]

30 minutes ago, TimR said:

Looks like the admins have got a lot of banning to do on that group then! 

[Nicko]

13 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

The whole 'hours worked' thing has always left me somewhat bemused.

 

I love playing bass. In fact, the only thing I love better than playing bass is playing bass for a genuine reason.

 

I love learning new material. In fact, the only thing I love better than learning new material is learning new material for a gig.

 

The idea of totting up how many hours I've 'invested' in playing bass, and then calculating the return on my investment, seems to miss the point rather. 

 

YMMV

 

That's true for some Jack, but for me I only play bass as part of being in a band and the enjoyment comes from the fact that there's 4 or 5 of you making music. I don't really have a passion for playing bass in the way that you do and got into it by accident simply as something to fill my time. I don't mind learning new songs, but generally I wouldn't choose the songs that most pub bands play.  As I said in my post I don't really enjoy the gigging thing either - it would be great if I could turn up with a bass, play the songs and then have a beer afterwards while enjoying the afterglow of the public's adoration.   In reality it feels like a slog once you've travelled done the set up and packed up and the reward of seeing the punters enjoying what we've done is seldom enough to balance the effort.  When its a permanent band building a set and seeing the development all adds to the positives and you just don't get that as a dep.

 

I wasn't approaching it from a £ per hour perspective.  If you want to make money out of playing you shouldn't be playing pubs as some others have pointed out.

 

 

 

[Nicko]

16 minutes ago, lownote said:

It just doesn't make sense, I can't see how pubs make a profit even on a £250 band - like we are (2-300), let alone 500.  I know Covid's got in the way but our last two gigs we were playing to mostly our own supporters, which numbered around six people.  There were other punters in but would they have been there anyway? Shirley it depends on so many things: city/sticks, popularity of the band, size of venue, time of year.  Also, in many tiny pubs the band set up and their 'deafening radius' actually take a chunk out of the available boozing area. But then I don't run a pub so what do I know. My band mates have been gigging since the 1860s 1960s and they charge us at aforesaid 200-300 max.

I think you have to analyse it a bit more than that.  The point of having a band play in a pub is:

 

1.  To get a repeat custom from the people who want a night in a pub listening to live music. There's a few pubs locally that have the same people turn up every Friday to see whatever band is playing.  I've been to them as  a punter and played there, and those people are only there on Friday, but they're there every Friday.

 

2.  To keep the punters in the pub once the band has started playing.  It's no coincidence that the punters are often completely ratfaced by the time you finish the gig.  They've been there for 4 hours.

 

3. To get a few of the band's regular following to turn up in addition to the regular crowd.

 

The cost of running a pub is largely the rent and staff cost.  These things don't change much when a pub pays a band and the band fee comes straight off the bottom line.  I suspect £250 a week is, erm, small beer when you look at the total outgoings of the business.

 

 

[KevB]

This is partly why I'm concentrating on the trio and dropped out of the 4/5 piece band. Better chance of coming away with a reasonably worthwhile amount of coin when it's only split 3 ways. We didn't get overpaid for our 3 sets on NYE (gtr/vox has done it as a 3 before and said they got same amount 8-10 years ago) yet at the end of the night it was touch and go if we would get paid in cash or given a cheque depending what was in the till. We practically emptied the till apparently. @Peteb gets to the nub of it. You won't get £500 if the venue knows they don't get that coming into the till on a music night week in week out.

[gareth]

8 minutes ago, KevB said:

This is partly why I'm concentrating on the trio and dropped out of the 4/5 piece band. Better chance of coming away with a reasonably worthwhile amount of coin when it's only split 3 ways. We didn't get overpaid for our 3 sets on NYE (gtr/vox has done it as a 3 before and said they got same amount 8-10 years ago) yet at the end of the night it was touch and go if we would get paid in cash or given a cheque depending what was in the till. We practically emptied the till apparently. @Peteb gets to the nub of it. You won't get £500 if the venue knows they don't get that coming into the till on a music night week in week out.

If you continue that logic, a solo act is the most efficient 

 

Singer and backing tracks 

 

Everyone’s a winner

 

Pub only pays £200/300/400

 

Singer gets £200/300/400

 

The final frontier 

[Happy Jack]

7 minutes ago, KevB said:

We didn't get overpaid for our 3 sets on NYE  yet at the end of the night it was touch and go if we would get paid in cash or given a cheque depending what was in the till. We practically emptied the till apparently. 

 

We went into our NYE gig being well aware that it's the sort of pub where people pay almost entirely by card. The pub was always going to make a mint that night, but there was real doubt that they'd have the cash to pay us.

 

Solution?

 

https://sumup.co.uk/air-contactless-card-reader-gsuk/?gclid=CjwKCAiA24SPBhB0EiwAjBgkhq95mN_UOrEEEaF5xxpsYd3DZwokgBqHMXy-iLsWwvqmfPFgJ4uI2BoCzzYQAvD_BwE

 

For a one-off payment of £35 I can now accept payments by card for any band I play in. The only on-going charge is their 2% transaction fee. For £300 gigs we now charge £306 if the venue wishes to pay by card.