Pub gig fees

[gareth]

1 minute ago, Happy Jack said:

 

We went into our NYE gig being well aware that it's the sort of pub where people pay almost entirely by card. The pub was always going to make a mint that night, but there was real doubt that they'd have the cash to pay us.

 

Solution?

 

https://sumup.co.uk/air-contactless-card-reader-gsuk/?gclid=CjwKCAiA24SPBhB0EiwAjBgkhq95mN_UOrEEEaF5xxpsYd3DZwokgBqHMXy-iLsWwvqmfPFgJ4uI2BoCzzYQAvD_BwE

 

For a one-off payment of £35 I can now accept payments by card for any band I play in. The only on-going charge is their 2% transaction fee. For £300 gigs we now charge £306 if the venue wishes to pay by card. 

 

What’s the urgency to get paid

 

Are musos that short that they can’t wait a few weeks to get paid?

 

I think the various delayed payment systems some venues use are to be welcomed if they reduce fraud

 

I worked in a band where several venues paid via U.K. entertainment 

 

A hassle to set up but once up and running no problem - you got paid 1/2 weeks after invoicing at the gig 

I can see there’s an increased risk of non payment but if you’re getting a lot of work I think the convenience, reduced fraud risk and better book keeping is a plus

 

what’s not to like

[gareth]

3 minutes ago, gareth said:

What’s the urgency to get paid

 

Are musos that short that they can’t wait a few weeks to get paid?

 

I think the various delayed payment systems some venues use are to be welcomed if they reduce fraud

 

I worked in a band where several venues paid via U.K. entertainment 

 

A hassle to set up but once up and running no problem - you got paid 1/2 weeks after invoicing at the gig 

I can see there’s an increased risk of non payment but if you’re getting a lot of work I think the convenience, reduced fraud risk and better book keeping is a plus

 

what’s not to like

What I’m saying is you can avoid the 2% fee by just waiting a few weeks to get paid 

 

So you can charge your £306 and actually get paid £306

 

Which given low interest rates is quite a good return 

[EBS_freak]

Some of you guys clearly haven't had a non paying gig after performing.

 

Another difference - function band - invoice raised before hand and paid before the band plays a note = creating proper audit trail of contract and payment.

 

Pub band - all sorts of jokery to be expected.

[iconic]

On 13/01/2022 at 10:47, fleabag said:

Wily landlords ...Who'd thought eh ?

 

Like the garage fuel suppliers raising their prices from £1.34 a litre to £1.50 blaming covid / shortages. There wasnt any shortage.  Just a lack of drivers

I can assure you the wholesale price of fuel did rise, sorry couldn't let that slide😄😎

 

 

Anyway back on topic, just a heads up.

I see mention of different charges for different payment methods, this a breach of consumer law, has been for a while now😎

Edited January 14, 2022 by iconic

[fleabag]

Ah but the stocks of fuel would have been bought  previous to pump price rise hikes.  The fuel prices may have gone up to pump suppliers but they'd already paid for those stocks at the earlier price

 

If you think the fuel companies dont see opportunities to profitteer, you'd be wrong. Most corporate entities would look for something to blame

[Nicko]

5 minutes ago, fleabag said:

Ah but the stocks of fuel would have been bought  previous to pump price rise hikes.  The fuel prices may have gone up to pump suppliers but they'd already paid for those stocks at the earlier price

 

If you think the fuel companies dont see opportunities to profitteer, you'd be wrong. Most corporate entities would look for something to blame

To be absolutely clear, crude oil prices at the time of the "shortage" were around $70 to $80 a barrel.  Compare that to prices ten years ago when they were above $100.  Wholesale prices only jumped because of the demand. not because of the cost of the product.  Of course crude prices were low in January 2020 but we ddn't see that reflected at the pump.

 

This is absolutely on topic - the amount you get for playing a pub is led by the demand and supply.  Too few pubs booking from too large a pool of bands is exactly the same thing, as is dep musos demanding more than an equal split of the band fee.

[iconic]

1 minute ago, fleabag said:

Ah but the stocks of fuel would have been bought  previous to pump price rise hikes.  The fuel prices may have gone up to pump suppliers but they'd already paid for those stocks at the earlier price

 

If you think the fuel companies dont see opportunities to profitteer, you'd be wrong. Most corporate entities would look for something to blame

😄It really doesn't work like this. That Esso garage (others are available😀) where you buy your fuel from haven't pre-purchased their fuel at a lower price. Its hard enough to turn a profit on fuel without pre-paying up front. 

 

The mark up is very little indeed, they would rather you purchased a sarnie and a coffee with double bubble returns, one reason many small garages no longer sell fuel, its simply not economically viable. 

 

On a bass 'note' the owner of my local village garage (no longer selling fuel, once played double bass in a country band😉

[peteb]

 

All this talk of why fuel prices are so high has little to do with why there was a shortage a few months ago, which was because of a shortage of tanker drivers... 

 

[TimR]

2 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

All this talk of why fuel prices are so high has little to do with why there was a shortage a few months ago, which was because of a shortage of tanker drivers... 

 

 

Well. It was a rush on supply. There were plenty of drivers. Some bloke who should have known better said that there was 90% of fuel availability. What he neglected to say was that's the normal availability, but no one normally notices. 

 

Once the whole country had filled up their tanks with fuel they're never going to use, the 'crises' suddenly was over. 

 

 

Edited January 14, 2022 by TimR

[TimR]

I think regards payment for pub gigs we also need to understand the 'amateur' musicians' role and the costs of equipment. 

 

You can now purchase a pretty decent PA for a few hundred quid.

 

And a lot of the pub musicians have well paying day jobs which mean that costs of gear and transport are incidental and heavily subsidised as part of their day job.

 

Musicians Union rates apply to professional working musicians within the industry. 

 

Your plumber who plays bass guitar will be using the money he got for his Friday night emergency call to pay for his van and £3,600 coffee table top bass. 

[iconic]

3 minutes ago, TimR said:

I think regards payment for pub gigs we also need to understand the 'amateur' musicians' role and the costs of equipment. 

 

You can now purchase a pretty decent PA for a few hundred quid.

 

And a lot of the pub musicians have well paying day jobs which mean that costs of gear and transport are incidental and heavily subsidised as part of their day job.

 

Musicians Union rates apply to professional working musicians within the industry. 

 

Your plumber who plays bass guitar will be using the money he got for his Friday night emergency call to pay for his van and £3,600 coffee table top bass. 

Good post. 

 

Made me think...... at what point is an amateur a pro', when money changes hands? 😎

[TimR]

7 minutes ago, iconic said:

Good post. 

 

Made me think...... at what point is an amateur a pro', when money changes hands? 😎

 

We used to call it semi-pro. 

 

It kind of relates to providing a professional service and be in demand enough to be paid, but it not being your main profession.

 

 

[Huge Hands]

11 minutes ago, iconic said:

Good post. 

 

Made me think...... at what point is an amateur a pro', when money changes hands? 😎

I would say when the money starts getting declared to the Inland Revenue....😀

[EBS_freak]

14 minutes ago, Huge Hands said:

I would say when the money starts getting declared to the Inland Revenue....😀

Nobody has done that since 2005.

[Grimalkin]

8 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Nobody has done that since 2005.

 

You just need a specialised accountant, who understands the requirements of your employment. From strings to stage clothes.

[Nicko]

40 minutes ago, iconic said:

Good post. 

 

Made me think...... at what point is an amateur a pro', when money changes hands? 😎

IMO you would need to be doing a lot of pub gigs to be earning more than your expenses, and at that point you are semi pro.

[MacDaddy]

50 minutes ago, TimR said:

I think regards payment for pub gigs we also need to understand the 'amateur' musicians' role and the costs of equipment. 

 

You can now purchase a pretty decent PA for a few hundred quid.

 

And a lot of the pub musicians have well paying day jobs which mean that costs of gear and transport are incidental and heavily subsidised as part of their day job.

 

Musicians Union rates apply to professional working musicians within the industry. 

 

Your plumber who plays bass guitar will be using the money he got for his Friday night emergency call to pay for his van and £3,600 coffee table top bass. 

 

34 minutes ago, TimR said:

 

We used to call it semi-pro. 

 

It kind of relates to providing a professional service and be in demand enough to be paid, but it not being your main profession.

 

 

 

show me this £3,600 coffee table top bass and I'll be nursing a semi...

[lownote]

24 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Nobody has done that since 2005.

Why?  By declaring my pub gig earnings I get to claim all my gig petrol, coffee, table bass,amplifiers, cabs, etc  against the tax I pay on my pension.  In fact the two sums almost cancel each other out this year. Which makes my coffee and table bass 20% cheaper and means HMRC gives me a cheque and not t'other way round 

Edited January 14, 2022 by lownote

[gareth]

3 minutes ago, lownote said:

Why?  By declaring my pub gig earnings I get to claim all my gig petrol, coffee, table bass,amplifiers, cabs, etc  against the tax I pay on my pension.  In fact the two sums almost cancel each other out.

Exactly 

 

you can do things properly and still not pay much tax - infact sometimes you make losses which can be offset against other income and tax refunds can be obtained 

[TimR]

13 minutes ago, lownote said:

Why?  By declaring my pub gig earnings I get to claim all my gig petrol, coffee, table bass,amplifiers, cabs, etc  against the tax I pay on other income.  Which makles my coffee and table bass 20% cheaper and means HMRC  give me a cheque and not t'other way round 

 

Because, unless you're trying to make a business out of it and turn a decent taxable profit, the HMRC aren't interested. Its just classed as a hobby if you're continually making a loss. I'm not sure how you get a cheque from them. I'm not sure that's correct. 

Edited January 14, 2022 by TimR

[MacDaddy]

17 minutes ago, lownote said:

Why?  By declaring my pub gig earnings I get to claim all my gig petrol, coffee, table bass,amplifiers, cabs, etc  against the tax I pay on my pension.  In fact the two sums almost cancel each other out this year. Which makes my coffee and table bass 20% cheaper and means HMRC gives me a cheque and not t'other way round 

 

yet someone with a few more zero's on the earnings, doing a similar thing and following the law, is vilified.

[Nicko]

1 minute ago, TimR said:

 

Because, unless you're trying to make a business out of it and turn a decent taxable profit, the HMRC aren't interested. Its just classed as a hobby. I'm not sure how you get a cheque from them. If they're continually paying you out, I'm not sure that's correct. 

When you submit a tax return they automatically do a calculation.  You either owe them money or they owe you money.  Depending on the amount of money you can have your tax code for the following year adjusted or request a repayment.  Most pub band members probably don't submit a tax return.  I did/do but claiming never used to bother with declaring the small income from the few gigs I did or recording the expenses I incurred.

[BigRedX]

20 minutes ago, lownote said:

Why?  By declaring my pub gig earnings I get to claim all my gig petrol, coffee, table bass,amplifiers, cabs, etc  against the tax I pay on my pension.  In fact the two sums almost cancel each other out this year. Which makes my coffee and table bass 20% cheaper and means HMRC gives me a cheque and not t'other way round 

 

I think EBS_Freak was referring to the fact that you'd called HMRC "Inland Revenue"...

[TimR]

3 minutes ago, Nicko said:

When you submit a tax return they automatically do a calculation.  You either owe them money or they owe you money.  Depending on the amount of money you can have your tax code for the following year adjusted or request a repayment.  Most pub band members probably don't submit a tax return.  I did/do but claiming never used to bother with declaring the small income from the few gigs I did or recording the expenses I incurred.

 

That's intended for business expenses. Not personal expenses. If you're continually trying to offset your PAYE against your 'hobby' expenses that's not right. 

[Count Bassy]

An old dear friend of mine (RIP) got shopped (we think) to the HMRC by someone in his village because he got paid for playing concertina in a folk dance band.

He got the call from HMRC, followed by a visit. At the end of the vist the HMRC person said basically "You've got a bloody expensive hobby here, haven't you?"

 

Additional note - you get more for playing in a folk dance band than you do in a Pub rock band.