Flatwound woes, help

[Guzzigaga]

I have a squier musicmaster Vista series. I've always used round wounds but thought I would try flats. A, D and G strings are fine, the E sounds like I'm playing in a bin. I've done the intonation, string height, pickup height. When I fret the string it sounds out of tune, doesn't matter if I press hard or soft. They are rotosound short scale flats. I contacted them thinking it could be a dead string and they sent me a replacement straight away. Thanks rotosound, nice customer care👍. But alas it's the same story, aahhhh.

any suggestions? Maybe it just doesn't like them😭.

[MuddBass]

Check that there is a clear / firm bend in the string at the bridge saddle point.

[MuddBass]

[Guzzigaga]

I will check that this afternoon. Cheers

[EssentialTension]

Relax the tension on the string before you set the witness point at the bridge saddle (as above) and let it settle before retuning. This avoids a twist in the string that will prevent it from ringing properly.

[fretmeister]

Every set of Roto flats I've ever had did that. Almost like I had to wait for the other 3 strings to get as dull as the E.

 

So I swapped to Dunlop flats - they do short and medium scales too. Very happy with them.

[Aidan63]

Short scale rotosounds are known for ringing sharp then settling to pitch, I tried both the flats and the tapes, same issue with both, did some online searching and found a good string article on Scott Whitley's old site which confirmed it. The E was the worst for it, but to some extent all the strings did it.

[fretmeister]

6 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

Short scale rotosounds are known for ringing sharp then settling to pitch, I tried both the flats and the tapes, same issue with both, did some online searching and found a good string article on Scott Whitley's old site which confirmed it. The E was the worst for it, but to some extent all the strings did it.

All strings do that of any construction and length

 

It's unavoidable - the pluck on the string stretches it for a moment. 

[Aidan63]

it's not the same as that, pluck a single note and wait 1 second+ for it to come to pitch, makes setting the intonation a pain, then you play and you can't trust your technique because of it, so you recheck the intonation, check you haven't twisted the string etc..

don't have the issue with any other brand of ss strings I've tried

[naxos10]

I have RS77S fitted to two of my shortcsales: on the one they were fitted to first the dead/out of tune sound is a lot less now than before so I think they may have a longer 'break in' period. Those fitted to my other bass are also starting to sound better over time although they have been on for a shorter period and not played for as long.

 

The Rotosound strings are made of Monel (Nickel/Copper + a few other components) which is a very different material from steel or nickel so if you take into account the comments from fretmeister:

 

4 hours ago, fretmeister said:

All strings do that of any construction and length

 

It's unavoidable - the pluck on the string stretches it for a moment. 

 

I would expect to hear a least a tonal difference anyway.

[Supernaut]

GHS Precision Flats come with a thuddy E straight out of the packet.

 

Let the other strings settle down and the thudydness will be equal over the board.

 

It's definitely not a dead string. 

[LITTLEWING]

On 16/01/2022 at 08:56, MuddBass said:

Check that there is a clear / firm bend in the string at the bridge saddle point.

This. ALWAYS. 

 

 

On 16/01/2022 at 17:10, naxos10 said:

I have RS77S fitted to two of my shortcsales: on the one they were fitted to first the dead/out of tune sound is a lot less now than before so I think they may have a longer 'break in' period. Those fitted to my other bass are also starting to sound better over time although they have been on for a shorter period and not played for as long.

 

The Rotosound strings are made of Monel (Nickel/Copper + a few other components) which is a very different material from steel or nickel so if you take into account the comments from fretmeister:

 

 

I would expect to hear a least a tonal difference anyway.

 

[Guzzigaga]

Thanks for all your replies. I've done all of the above with no change. I am just going to refit the round wound I took off. Just the E, this has now put me off buying roto's in the future.

[PaulThePlug]

Q... You haven't wraped the string round the post have you, inducing a twist in the string, rather than taking up ALL the slack by turning the machine head?

 

Short Scale... Also where has the start of the Flatwind stated, before it meets the tuning peg?

[Supernaut]

2 hours ago, Guzzigaga said:

Thanks for all your replies. I've done all of the above with no change. I am just going to refit the round wound I took off. Just the E, this has now put me off buying roto's in the future.

 

Sigh... 

[naxos10]

How long have you had them fitted to the bass?

 

Re my earlier post the second set I fitted are sounding pretty even now.

[Guzzigaga]

The strings have been on for about a month but I haven't been playing it much because of the problem. I have in the meantime taken some advice and really given the E string a brutal stretch, it was a one eye shut job. I am quite used to setting up basses and guitars and have never had to be quite so harsh with a string. It does seem to be working, not fixed but getting there. I'll keep doing it every time I play hopefully it will settle down.

[naxos10]

As mentioned in an earlier post I have found that the RS77S strings do take longer to bed in and also sound better in a band mix the bedroom practice.

[LITTLEWING]

On 16/01/2022 at 10:46, EssentialTension said:

Relax the tension on the string before you set the witness point at the bridge saddle (as above) and let it settle before retuning. This avoids a twist in the string that will prevent it from ringing properly.

I can’t quite see this. I always do the witness point thing in tune and as this will slightly stretch the string it will need retuning a smidge where it went flat. If you relax the tension and do ‘the thing’ surely as you retune it will move the witness point bend away from the saddle? I could well be wrong. Open to learning, every day’s a school day etc.

[EssentialTension]

1 hour ago, LITTLEWING said:

I can’t quite see this. I always do the witness point thing in tune and as this will slightly stretch the string it will need retuning a smidge where it went flat. If you relax the tension and do ‘the thing’ surely as you retune it will move the witness point bend away from the saddle? I could well be wrong. Open to learning, every day’s a school day etc.

 

I didn't express myself very clearly. I should have said:

 

Before you set the witness point at the bridge saddle, relax the tension on the string and let it settle before retuning and then setting the witness point. This avoids a twist in the string that will prevent it from ringing properly.

 

 

On 19/01/2022 at 14:49, PaulThePlug said:

Q... You haven't wraped the string round the post have you, inducing a twist in the string, rather than taking up ALL the slack by turning the machine head?

 

That is one way in which a twist can occur. Always wind the machine head and don't twist the string around the tuning peg by hand.

[bigthumb]

I have a set of Rotosound fitted to a Precision bass and they do seem pretty dull and muted to me across all 4 strings but all balanced. They're ok but I preferred the Labellas I had on a Pbass I once owned. 

On my other Precision I've recently fitted a set of Detroit flats. Like the OP the A,D and G are fine,  quite nice sounding in fact but the E is nowhere. I've tried re stringing a couple of times but its makes no difference. I'm wondering if it doesn't like thru body stringing? The bridge on my US '95 P is thru body only BTW. So, I replaced the offending E with a Dunlop where the difference is night and day. It blends nicely with the Elites and when the A,D&G newness wares off I think it'll be spot on and what I want to hear from my bass. 

[Obrienp]

As was said before, Rotosound short scale strings seem to have intonation issues. I gave up on the set I had and won’t buy them again. Strangely I haven’t had the same problem with their standard scale strings.