Rickenbackers for sale?

[prowla]

I just noticed that BC is running ads for Rickenbacker sales...

 

[Happy Jack]

Is the R*********** ban still a thing? If so, is it really still necessary?

[warwickhunt]

Just now, Happy Jack said:

Is the R*********** ban still a thing? If so, is it really still necessary?

 

Would you want to test the wrath of the Ric Police? 

 

[Happy Jack]

2 minutes ago, warwickhunt said:

 

Would you want to test the wrath of the Ric Police? 

 

My point ... I'm not sure that they still exist, what with John Hall having retired to rural Wales (srsly) several years ago.

 

If you really have nothing better to do, you could trawl back to the original Ric controversy back in Basschat's early days. You'll see that even then I was saying that Hall's threats were empty posturing which couldn't possibly be enforced in British courts, and that I'd be happy to contribute to a Fighting Fund to face him down were he stupid enough to reach for his lawyers.

 

I'm pretty sure that Hall was simply doing what @Bassassin described at the time: Taking obvious, visible steps (no matter how pointless) to protect his intellectual property. I seem to recall that there was a distinction between trademark and copyright that was significant, but the key point was that Fender et al had never 'protected' their designs which is why they were copied with impunity around the planet.

 

Despite the famous (and largely non-existent) "Lawsuit Copies" of Gibsons.

 

 

[Geek99]

I’m sure they could still be sold through the Classified Ads section of Farmers Weekly whatever happens here on BC 

[Paul S]

Time was that listings for Fakers were rigorously removed from eBay et al but it seems no longer so I guess the new management have other concerns.  Be nice to see Rics and Fakers welcomed back in the fold here and openly offered for sale.

[Clarky]

Its still policed on BC. I, admittedly somewhat cheekily, mentioned in my status this week that I am selling a "bass that cannot be named (think Geddy, 2112)" on ebay and that status was removed by the mods. As presumably will be this post

[Happy Jack]

Being (unnecessarily?) policed on Basschat is pretty much what I mean. Why is anyone still doing this? What's the point?

[Clarky]

I get the original faker ban (although you may be right Jack that times have moved on in regard of their litigiousness) but struggle to understand banning FS/FT posts involving demonstrably genuine R***s, with serial number etc to prove.

Edited January 18, 2022 by Clarky

[RhysP]

4 hours ago, Happy Jack said:

...John Hall having retired to rural Wales (srsly) several years ago...

 

I

Really? 

[ped]

I personally think we should reconsider now. 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Clarky said:

) but struggle to understand banning FS/FT posts involving demonstrably genuine R***s, with serial number etc to prove.

 

Because the mods didn't have enough time to go through all posts checking whether something is legit.

 

15 minutes ago, ped said:

I personally think we should reconsider now. 

 

I think so too, it doesn't appear that currently ric are putting the same level of interest in

[Happy Jack]

38 minutes ago, RhysP said:

Really? 

 

Yes, really.

 

When @Silvia Bluejay and I interviewed him for Bass Guitar Magazine at NAMM 2019 in Anaheim, he had just retired and his new wife was on the Rick stand. She's Welsh and they'd decided to set up home on her side of the Atlantic.

 

They were a very nice couple.

 

[Woodinblack]

26 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

When @Silvia Bluejay and I interviewed him for Bass Guitar Magazine at NAMM 2019 in Anaheim, he had just retired and his new wife was on the Rick stand. She's Welsh and they'd decided to set up home on her side of the Atlantic

 

That is often what people do when they are older. Leave the harsher climes of somewhere like Santa Ana California to go somewhere mild like Wales. Oh hang on...

Still, I guess the amount of days you can't breath outside due to forrest fires are a lot lower in Wales.

[Velarian]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

That is often what people do when they are older. Leave the harsher climes of somewhere like Santa Ana California to go somewhere mild like Wales. Oh hang on...

Still, I guess the amount of days you can't breath outside due to forrest fires are a lot lower in Wales.

Don’t forget the earthquakes. 

[lowregisterhead]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

That is often what people do when they are older. Leave the harsher climes of somewhere like Santa Ana California to go somewhere mild like Wales. Oh hang on...

Still, I guess the amount of days you can't breath outside due to forrest fires are a lot lower in Wales.

If they're still setting fire to English-owned holiday homes in Wales it'll probably feel just like California...

[Kiwi]

I have no problem with the Rick ban being lifted if John Hall has no further influence in the management of the company.  I'd read somewhere online he'd handed over day to day running to his son(s) but still maintained an overview of the organisation. I don't know how to interpret that in regards to us. 

[Happy Jack]

Remember this?
 

 

I'm on p.3 BTW.

 

[Happy Jack]

I found that while searching for any evidence at all the Rickenbacker actually go to Court in the manner threatened.

 

A simple bunch of Google searches established that the firm have an ENORMOUS reputation for doing this, but that there is little evidence that any such cases have ever come to Court in the USA (where Basschat is not) and none at all that they have come to Court in UK or the rest of Europe (where Basschat actually is).

 

This was always a huge bluff, and we seem to still be living in a land of stereotypes where Big Bad John comes creeping into your music studio while you sleep and leaves a Writ on your Rick.

 

[Woodinblack]

I never really had an issue with him enforcing his copyright, seems a sensible thing to do. Its just the fact he was so unnecesarily unpleasant when he contacted people and also totally incorrect in some of his assumptions.

[bumnote]

I have a real one that Im considering selling so I would well chuffed if the ban was lifted.

[Happy Jack]

This website is a classic example of how these myths continue to propagate and echo through the Internet:

 

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/articles/features/guitar_wars_8_times_guitar_companies_freaked_out_about_trademark_infringement-84300

 

Written three years ago, it's a piece of lazy clickbait journalism which gives the impression that Rickenbacker have issued countless law suits while somehow avoiding mentioning ANY actual instances.

 

Instead we get "Rickenbacker has no tolerance when it comes to copycats, and the company has been militantly litigious with any and all companies that have made anything that bites Rickenbacker's style" and "Rickenbacker has also threatened legal action over certain guitar pieces that look like theirs" and "Rickenbacker has had a history with claiming trademark infringement as the reason to take down listings of Rickenbacker bass guitar clones from second-hand equipment sites" and "seeing as the company will go to these lengths in order to suppress any clones ...".

 

Not only is this all complete guff and bullpoop, it's not even convincing guff and bullpoop. Citing a single example where Rickenbacker had actually sued someone would be far more persuasive, while citing a single example of a successful legal action would be even better.

[Kiwi]

1 minute ago, Happy Jack said:

Remember this?
 

 

I'm on p.3 BTW.

 

Yes (and so was Mr Hall but we've hidden his post). Nothing has essentially changed in terms of corporate legal position or intellectual property rights of Rickenbacker as far as I'm aware. Even if Mr Hall has stepped away from the company.  And if Rickenbacker doesn't enforce those rights then they lose them (as Mr Hall's lawyer explained in a follow up).

 

4 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

This was always a huge bluff, and we seem to still be living in a land of stereotypes where Big Bad John comes creeping into your music studio while you sleep and leaves a Writ on your Rick.

But that's assuming they have no rights in the UK/ EU.  Maybe they do?  And if we assume wrong then what...?  

 

The legal advice I got from a friend at Page White and Farrar was respect the rights of other IP holders.  Because that's what a judge will expect.  

[Happy Jack]

4 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

The legal advice I got from a friend at Page White and Farrar was respect the rights of other IP holders.  Because that's what a judge will expect.  

 

Absolutely - no argument there.

 

But a Basschatter wishing to sell a Kasuga copy that was made 40 years ago in Japan, and which he himself bought (in good faith) 15 years ago is not failing to respect anyone's rights, and the website where he chooses to list it (whether that be eBay or Reverb or Basschat) is even less showing disrespect.

 

Precisely what action, or type of action, could Rickenbacker bring against Basschat? And what redress would they be seeking?

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Happy Jack

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, Kiwi said:

The legal advice I got from a friend at Page White and Farrar was respect the rights of other IP holders.  Because that's what a judge will expect.  

 

Indeed, as you should, which is why you shouldn't start producing and distributing rickenbacker copies yourself, however, if you sell a private instrument which you are not claiming is a rickenbacker, you are not infringing. The only problem is when it is a fake (ie, you are claiming it is a rickenback when it isn't), and how many fake fenders have probably gone through the site over the years? I think it is easier to spot a fake ric then a fake fender.