Maruszczyk elwood trussrod....works in reverse!!

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, neepheid said:

Do we not drive on the left in order to keep our right hand free for swinging swords at people?

 

Allegedly so, and it's also the reason that we mount horses and motorcycles from the left hand side, as a right-hander would wear his sword on the left and it would get in the way if mounting from the right.

 

I have seen it often repeated (and thought it was true) that Napoleon enforced a transition from riding/driving on the left to riding on the right, as a symbolic gesture against left-hand riders because the aristocracy would swing swords at peasants as they passed them by, facilitated by riding on the left. The Wikipedia article that @Hellzero cites says that isn't so, however.

[tauzero]

2 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

It's so obvious that it's obvious I obviously didn't understand the obvious part of the obvious wording. Silly me. 🤪

 

Let me explain:

 

"as historically Europeans generally went on the left so the UK is doing it the way it always did."

 

Europe includes the UK. Europeans including the UK population generally went on the left. The UK didn't change, so it is doing it the way it always did. Other European countries did change to the right.

[Hellzero]

You win @tauzero!

 

I'm out to buy a Toledo Salamanca.

[Hellzero]

By the way @ebenezer, did you get the awaited answer? 🤦🏻‍♂️😂😉

[tauzero]

1 minute ago, Hellzero said:

You win @tauzero!

 

I'm out to buy a Toledo Salamanca.

 

Sorry, I really shouldn't go doing a TimR. 😁

[basexperience]

22 hours ago, tauzero said:

 

 

However, I have both Seis and Warwicks, and they are all reverse truss-rod. It's just the way things are.

I sincerely hope you don’t think Warwick truss Ross are left-tighten…

 

https://www.warwickbass.com/warwick/data/Warwick.de/Technical PDF/Manuals/WWBassManual_en_2013.pdf

 

“Truss rod adjustment:

Turning the truss rod key clockwise (direction A) will tighten the truss rod and give the neck a back bow. Turning the truss rod key counterclockwise (direction B) will loosen the truss rod and give the neck a forward bow.”

 

also: @Hellzero - what on earth is your problem? I posed a question, and in return I got a supercilious eyebrow raise. 
 

maybe a luthier can furnish me with an actual answer instead of strange combative responses…

 

<shrugs>

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, basexperience said:

I sincerely hope you don’t think Warwick truss Ross are left-tighten…

 

https://www.warwickbass.com/warwick/data/Warwick.de/Technical PDF/Manuals/WWBassManual_en_2013.pdf

 

“Truss rod adjustment:

Turning the truss rod key clockwise (direction A) will tighten the truss rod and give the neck a back bow. Turning the truss rod key counterclockwise (direction B) will loosen the truss rod and give the neck a forward bow.”

 

Yes, my Warwick truss rods are left to tighten. At least my 1987 and 1988 Thumbs are, can't remember which my 2000 is and I haven't had to adjust the Corvette, nor did I have to adjust the Buzzard. Evidently Warwick have changed it between 1988 (maybe 2000) and 2013.

[Paulhauser]

1 hour ago, tauzero said:

 

Yes, my Warwick truss rods are left to tighten. At least my 1987 and 1988 Thumbs are, can't remember which my 2000 is and I haven't had to adjust the Corvette, nor did I have to adjust the Buzzard. Evidently Warwick have changed it between 1988 (maybe 2000) and 2013.

I have two Thumb Made in Garmany / masterbuilt NT6s, one from 2009 the other is 2016 and both have truss rods that are right-tighten. 

[basexperience]

On 26/07/2023 at 13:42, tauzero said:

 

Yes, my Warwick truss rods are left to tighten. At least my 1987 and 1988 Thumbs are, can't remember which my 2000 is and I haven't had to adjust the Corvette, nor did I have to adjust the Buzzard. Evidently Warwick have changed it between 1988 (maybe 2000) and 2013.

My guess is the turning point (pun intended) was when removable truss rods stopped. 

[Andyjr1515]

On 26/07/2023 at 12:18, basexperience said:

maybe a luthier can furnish me with an actual answer

Well, guitar and bass builder, for what that's worth 

 

And here, I am talking 'conventional' single action or two-way truss rods.

 

 

While there are some unconventional and custom trussrod approaches, nevertheless, sticking with the conventional types it is usual - and I've never personally come across any that are not - that 'standard' single-action truss rods are 'righty-tighty' (ie clockwise to increase the back-bow to counteract the string tension's bow and arrow bow. 

 

Here's what one looks like:

 

The slot is curved, and the rod is also covered by a curved packer under the fretboard which bends the rod.  When you tighten the rod, it tries to straighten which bends the neck in the direction required.

To make it lefty-tighty, functionally it would work exactly the same but you would actually have to cut a left-handed thread...which is an unnecessary complication and potential confusion to the customer.  That said, you can do no real harm with a conventional single action as, if you are turning it the wrong way, the nut will generally just come loose and unscrew off the rod.

 

 

Two-way rods are different, though.  From flat, turn the adjuster one way and it bends one way, turn it the other way and it bends the opposite way.  So which way you have to turn the adjuster to create a back bow in the neck depends - not on which way round it is, but which way UP it is.  

 

To explain - here's a typical two-way trussrod...and an oft-repeated misleading feature in this photo from a well-respected supplier's web site illustrates the reason that some folks get it wrong.  I'll come back to that

How it works is that there are opposite screw threads each side of the rod.  So if you turn the adjuster, the two screw blocks at each end and welded to the steel strip get closer together or further apart.  And so the steel strip and rod have no option to bend either one way or the other, depending which way you turned the adjuster.

 

Turning the adjuster clockwise looking at it from here will bend it one way (in reality, with the above one the two ends will lift off the table).  But note that if this was a headstock access and we wanted to adjust it from the heel, then turning the whole thing round so the adjuster is at the other end, then turning the adjuster clockwise looking at it from the heel still bends the same way (above, the two ends still rise off the table).

 

But if we turned the rod the other way UP - so that the steel strip is at the top then, as far as the neck is concerned it is bending the opposite way.  And yes, folks - the above photo has it upside down.  And most ads for truss rods DO show them the wrong way round - probably because it's easier to photo...and the marketing guys aren't usually the guitar builders.

 

So, to summarise - which way up a conventional two-way rod is fitted will determine if righty-tighty reduces the relief or increases the relief.

 

And, to come finally back to @basexperience 's question.  And this is, of course, only my own personal view and experience:

 

Why might you install a rod to 'lefty-tighty' rather than the more conventional 'righty-tighty' ? 

 

1.  Hobby Builders

 

- by mistake.  Either by assuming the marketing photos show the way up it should be fitted, or not understanding fully how the rod works, or just good old human error

- for one of the intentional reasons below

 

2.  Commercial Builders

- Note that the adjuster in the photo is vertically offset.  So when it is fitted correctly - with the steel strip at the top, the adjuster is low down in the access slot.  In some designs, that gives a problem for Allen Key access.  I am aware of some designs where they need to get that adjuster as high as possible and turning the bar the other way up will achieve that

-  Design error.  Yes - no names, but I am aware of one company that unknowingly got it wrong...and suffered some understandable owner adjustment neck failures as a result

- Manufacture error.  Unlikely - as it would immediately show up on initial set-up - but, for the sake of even-handedness, yes, possible.

 

There is, of course, no rule or law, or industry standard on this and so makers are free to do what they want.  But I personally think going against the 'convention' without a decent reason is asking for trouble.  At the very least it needs to be made very clear to customers and users of the difference and the potential damage likely from not following the recommended set up advice.   Oh, and, it goes without saying that the warranty approach needs to be fair given the likely confusion, error and damage.  Personal view...

 

[basexperience]

@Andyjr1515 - thank you so much for an actual answer! That was truly illuminating 🥰

[tauzero]

23 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

2.  Commercial Builders

- Note that the adjuster in the photo is vertically offset.  So when it is fitted correctly - with the steel strip at the top, the adjuster is low down in the access slot.  In some designs, that gives a problem for Allen Key access.  I am aware of some designs where they need to get that adjuster as high as possible and turning the bar the other way up will achieve that

 

Thanks for that explanation of the double-action truss rod - it's effectively a turnbuckle then.

 

I do have a conundrum here - a Sei headless, where the adjuster (in the headpiece) is as near as it could possibly be to the bottom of the neck (come to think of it, you've met the bass in question, although the necessary work was at the body end). Adjustment is contrariwise - I have to do it fairly regularly so I'm certain of that. I can't see how the truss rod could be installed the wrong way up, so could it be that some truss rods have the l/h and r/h threads at the opposite ends to others?

[Andyjr1515]

16 minutes ago, tauzero said:

(come to think of it, you've met the bass in question

And a stunningly beautiful bass that was, too! 

18 minutes ago, tauzero said:

Adjustment is contrariwise - I have to do it fairly regularly so I'm certain of that. I can't see how the truss rod could be installed the wrong way up, so could it be that some truss rods have the l/h and r/h threads at the opposite ends to others?

Potentially, yes - if the adjuster was welded to the other end (or the two threaded blocks were fitted the other way round) then I reckon yes - if would operate in 'reverse'.  All other things being equal, I can't think of any advantage in doing that, but there might be one.  Anyone know?