Industrial Radio MIDIbass PJ saga

[Quatschmacher]

13 minutes ago, LukeFRC said:

I glad you got your money back. In 3.5 years you could have done John Shakers bass building course and worked out the midi bits on how to build it yourself!

Haha, I actually ordered my Shuker two years after the MIDIbass and the Shuker was still finished before the MIDIbass. 
 

There’s also the ROR Expressive MIDIbass in Ireland.

 

As said though, I think I’ll probably stick to keys now as I’ve put in lots of serious practice on them since ordering the bass. 

[Hellzero]

If you want to be a bit reassured about delays, I waited my Leduc U-Contrebasse 6 EUB (called Moaï ) for 7 years and my Leduc U-Basse 6 fretless is going to delivered in a few weeks after more than 5 years of waiting.

 

But Christophe is a friend and you know how it works with delays and friends...

 

That said I always had news about the building progress ... when there was some.

[Quatschmacher]

12 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

If you want to be a bit reassured about delays, I waited my Leduc U-Contrebasse 6 EUB (called Moaï ) for 7 years and my Leduc U-Basse 6 fretless is going to delivered in a few weeks after more than 5 years of waiting.

 

But Christophe is a friend and you know how it works with delays and friends...

 

That said I always had news about the building progress ... when there was some.

I don’t mind waiting for an instrument as long as there’s some contact with updates now and then. What was frustrating was not hearing anything for over a year, then being told it’d be ready in a few weeks, then hearing nothing again for months, then being asked to finalise a few details (despite then already having all the info). Every time it felt like they were stalling for time rather than just being upfront. Was like that right up to the end, saying it’d be ready before the refund would be due (of course it wasn’t). There’s only so much a person can take.

 

My Shuker build took about 14 months (8 months longer than the original stated time) but Jon sent me update pics when requested and I know I can always head down the road to see him in person if needs be. Totally different prospect when it’s a company on the other side of the globe and when there’s just no unprompted communication for many months or sometimes years. 

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Quatschmacher said:

I’m just sad that it took so much effort and that I felt compelled to publicly disparage them before getting anywhere - I really dislike having had to do that. 

 

Agreed it is not nice, but it is not like you didn't have justification for it. Things go wrong sometimes, although seems very wrong in this case, but it is up to the company to try and resolve those difficulties and keep their customers informed. I mean if they told you it was taking 12 months and it went past 18 months, they should have at the very least offered a refund in that time if you werent' happy with the delay But they didn't for whatever the reason. Its one thing to trash someone elses reputation, its something entirely different to trash your own.

[LukeFRC]

44 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

I don’t mind waiting for an instrument as long as there’s some contact with updates now and then. What was frustrating was not hearing anything for over a year, then being told it’d be ready in a few weeks, then hearing nothing again for months, then being asked to finalise a few details (despite then already having all the info). Every time it felt like they were stalling for time rather than just being upfront. Was like that right up to the end, saying it’d be ready before the refund would be due (of course it wasn’t). There’s only so much a person can take.

 

My Shuker build took about 14 months (8 months longer than the original stated time) but Jon sent me update pics when requested and I know I can always head down the road to see him in person if needs be. Totally different prospect when it’s a company on the other side of the globe and when there’s just no unprompted communication for many months or sometimes years. 

This - it's clear communication that makes the difference. 

[tauzero]

Let's face it, for many of us on BC 3.5 years represents a considerable proportion of the remainder of our allotted span. The youth of today may desire instant gratification but it's us old ones who genuinely need it.

[BigRedX]

Good. prompt communication is essential for all small businesses, especially those with long project times.

 

I put aside time every day to make sure that I am up to date with all my business communications, so that no-one is hanging on for a reply.

[rwillett]

7 hours ago, tauzero said:

Let's face it, for many of us on BC 3.5 years represents a considerable proportion of the remainder of our allotted span. The youth of today may desire instant gratification but it's us old ones who genuinely need it.

Thanks for this. It may be very true and highly accurate but you didn't need to say it 😊

 

Just off to check the sands in my timer. ⏳⚰️

Edited July 28, 2023 by rwillett

[rwillett]

28 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

Good. prompt communication is essential for all small businesses, especially those with long project times.

 

I put aside time every day to make sure that I am up to date with all my business communications, so that no-one is hanging on for a reply.

 

I agree 100%.

 

I also do the same with HMRC. They are one group of people you never want to be on the wrong side of. 

[Quatschmacher]

10 hours ago, tauzero said:

Let's face it, for many of us on BC 3.5 years represents a considerable proportion of the remainder of our allotted span. The youth of today may desire instant gratification but it's us old ones who genuinely need it.

Hadn’t thought of it like that but yes, it really is.

[Quatschmacher]

Hilariously I’ve just noticed I’ve been blocked from the Industrial Radio user group on Facebook. I simply followed up my earlier post about being frustrated at not getting any communication and said that I’d now been issued a refund and that I hoped anyone else waiting got their instrument soon. Don’t see why that is so controversial. Seems they are trying to stop anyone reading bad press. Wonder if they are also trying to ensure that no one else tries to cancel their order. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I hope no one else gets stung. 

Edited July 31, 2023 by Quatschmacher

[rwillett]

Three, two, one... Streisand Effect.

[ahpook]

8 minutes ago, Quatschmacher said:

Hilariously I’ve just noticed I’ve been blocked from the Industrial Radio user group on Facebook. I simply followed up my earlier post about being frustrated at not getting any communication and said that I’d now been issued a refund and that I hoped anyone else waiting got their instrument soon. Don’t see why that is so controversial. Seems they are trying to stop anyone reading bad press. Wonder if they are also trying to ensure that no one else tries to cancel their order. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

I hope no one else gets stung. 

 

Your post might possibly put off others loaning them money for 3 1/2 years at 0% interest.

 

They strike me as a bunch of shysters, given what you've shared in this thread. I'm really chuffed you got your dosh back. Hopefully this thread will serve as an education for other prospective creditors, sorry....customers.

Edited July 31, 2023 by ahpook

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Quatschmacher said:

Hilariously I’ve just noticed I’ve been blocked from the Industrial Radio user group on Facebook. I simply followed up my earlier post about being frustrated at not getting any communication and said that I’d now been issued a refund and that I hoped anyone else waiting got their instrument soon.

 

People notice posts getting removed, plus if you do a google, basschat threads appears quite high in the listings for it, so people can find out.

Then of course, there are various trustpilot sort of sites...

 

[DHawk888]

Joined this forum to chime in on this scam. My credit union refunded me 1/3 of the $1,500 deposit IR stole from me. Said the statute of limitations had passed, even though IR kept stringing out the competition date. Total wait time 4 years. 

[Owen]

That sucks deeply.

[BassTool]

19 hours ago, DHawk888 said:

Joined this forum to chime in on this scam. My credit union refunded me 1/3 of the $1,500 deposit IR stole from me. Said the statute of limitations had passed, even though IR kept stringing out the competition date. Total wait time 4 years. 

Disgraceful that 😤 

[Baloney Balderdash]

On 11/11/2022 at 17:43, BigRedX said:

 

Because they essentially have no competition if you want a bass guitar capable of generating MIDI note data with close to zero latency.

Though you could with some right claim that the latency is several years to forever.

 

Edited July 14 by Baloney Balderdash

[rwillett]

You can't have zero latency, unless that have magically changed the laws of physics. Some sort of "spooky action at a distance".

 

I can't see how they get such low values. The string has to be played, the pickup has to register the string is vibrating, something has to work out the frequency which requires an element of sampling over a period of time. 

 

C is 440hz which so a string vibrates 440 times a second, so two vibrations in 1/220 of a second. That's 0.05 of a second (ish). 

 

Even a battery powered CPU or chip can do a hell of a lot in 0.05 sec but doing it accurately and for even lower notes is quite a feat. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

33 minutes ago, rwillett said:

The string has to be played, the pickup has to register the string is vibrating

No, that is not how this works!

 

Or you might as well have used a regular Midi pickup.

 

And no one claimed the latency was 0.

 

But you do save the latency of the tracking otherwise needed with a regular Midi pickup.

 

And this system does actually work perfectly, what doesn't work however is the people who invented it pulling their shit together and getting the ordered builds done...

 

Edited July 14 by Baloney Balderdash

[tauzero]

1 hour ago, rwillett said:

You can't have zero latency, unless that have magically changed the laws of physics. Some sort of "spooky action at a distance".

 

I can't see how they get such low values. The string has to be played, the pickup has to register the string is vibrating, something has to work out the frequency which requires an element of sampling over a period of time. 

 

C is 440hz which so a string vibrates 440 times a second, so two vibrations in 1/220 of a second. That's 0.05 of a second (ish). 

 

Even a battery powered CPU or chip can do a hell of a lot in 0.05 sec but doing it accurately and for even lower notes is quite a feat. 

 

I think (but can't be sure) that this is more like the YRG1000 - it detects electrically where the string has been fretted and which string has been played. I'm not sure if this would mean split frets or whether there's something else in play in the Fretsense system.

[Kiwi]

On 31/07/2023 at 22:47, Quatschmacher said:

Hilariously I’ve just noticed I’ve been blocked from the Industrial Radio user group on Facebook. I simply followed up my earlier post about being frustrated at not getting any communication and said that I’d now been issued a refund and that I hoped anyone else waiting got their instrument soon.

I hadn't noticed!  Shall I post an awkard question relating to your membership status? 

8 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I think (but can't be sure) that this is more like the YRG1000 - it detects electrically where the string has been fretted and which string has been played. I'm not sure if this would mean split frets or whether there's something else in play in the Fretsense system.

Split frets, electrically isolated and hard to refret unless the neck is returned to base.

 

On 31/07/2023 at 22:55, ahpook said:

They strike me as a bunch of shysters, given what you've shared in this thread. I'm really chuffed you got your dosh back. 

I don't think they are but Steve appears to have taken his eye off the ball.  Regardless, it really doesn't matter about why, the fact that it's happening is pretty much a death sentence for anyone in this industry, which is a shame. I suspect a solution might be to license the technology out again but I haven't seen Steve since 2009 so perhaps the window of opportunity is running out.

[Quatschmacher]

On 07/07/2024 at 19:16, DHawk888 said:

Joined this forum to chime in on this scam. My credit union refunded me 1/3 of the $1,500 deposit IR stole from me. Said the statute of limitations had passed, even though IR kept stringing out the competition date. Total wait time 4 years. 

Sorry to hear that. Did you ask IR directly for a refund first?

[Quatschmacher]

On 11/11/2022 at 16:43, BigRedX said:

 

Because they essentially have no competition if you want a bass guitar capable of generating MIDI note data with close to zero latency.

They have direct competition from ROR guitars with their expressiv MIDIbass. 

[Quatschmacher]

3 hours ago, rwillett said:

You can't have zero latency, unless that have magically changed the laws of physics. Some sort of "spooky action at a distance".

 

I can't see how they get such low values. The string has to be played, the pickup has to register the string is vibrating, something has to work out the frequency which requires an element of sampling over a period of time. 

 

C is 440hz which so a string vibrates 440 times a second, so two vibrations in 1/220 of a second. That's 0.05 of a second (ish). 

 

Even a battery powered CPU or chip can do a hell of a lot in 0.05 sec but doing it accurately and for even lower notes is quite a feat. 

No. It’s a wired fret technology so the pitch is already determined by the string touching the fret and making a connection (or lack thereof for open strings) before the string has even been struck. Consequently the latency is only as much as it takes the piezo saddles to detect string movement above the set threshold, which is consistently 5-8ms anywhere on the instrument.