Need more speed

[SteveXFR]

I'm hitting a dead end with my latest cover project and I don't understand why.

I'm trying to learn Blood and Thunder by Mastadon. It's a fairly simple tune and if I was using a pick, I'd have it done pretty easily but Troy plays with fingers and that's what sounds best so that's what I'm doing. 

The first riff with the droning low D is really hard (for me) to play at full speed (93bpm). I've put it in my DAW and slowed it down and I'm dead at 82bpm, any faster and I'm trying my fingers in knots. I keep going at it and keep hitting a brick wall at 82bpm.

Could there be some sort of technique I'm missing? Or am I just crap?

 

[Cato]

My big breakthrough with playing fast for extended periods came when I realised that if I turned the amp up I could just brush the strings with my fingertips so I'm hitting the top of the string with much less force than my previous techinque where I was plucking the side of the string.

 

If that makes any sense.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Cato

[Machines]

Have looked up the tab here: https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/mastodon-blood-and-thunder-bass-tab-s12344

 

It looks simple, but there's some tricky parts eg bars 6 & 8 . Muscle memory is going to be key here. I'll give it a go after dinner and see where the pitfalls are.

[SteveXFR]

  On 26/01/2022 at 19:51, Machines said:

Have looked up the tab here: https://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/mastodon-blood-and-thunder-bass-tab-s12344

 

It looks simple, but there's some tricky parts eg bars 6 & 8 . Muscle memory is going to be key here. I'll give it a go after dinner and see where the pitfalls are.

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That's exactly where I'm failing. Play it slow and it's really easy but build up the speed and I'm tying my picking hand in knots trying to keep up and eventually it all goes wrong. 

[Bunion]

I had the same problem with Muse ‘hysteria’ 

it’s a simple bass line but the constant drive and push is relentless throughout the song. 
took me a goodly while to bang it down and occasionally I still trip up. 
perseverance is king 

[Machines]

  On 26/01/2022 at 20:02, SteveXFR said:

 

That's exactly where I'm failing. Play it slow and it's really easy but build up the speed and I'm tying my picking hand in knots trying to keep up and eventually it all goes wrong. 

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If it helps, I've been trying to play Panic Attack by Dream Theater for 2 years. I'm just at the point I can do it without any errors.

[SteveXFR]

  On 26/01/2022 at 20:55, Machines said:

 

If it helps, I've been trying to play Panic Attack by Dream Theater for 2 years. I'm just at the point I can do it without any errors.

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I wasn't familiar with Panic Attack so I just had a listen. It sounds bloody hard. I see why it took two years

Edited January 26, 2022 by SteveXFR

[Lozz196]

  On 26/01/2022 at 19:44, Cato said:

My big breakthrough with playing fast for extended periods came when I realised that if I turned the amp up I could just brush the strings with my fingertips so I'm hitting the top of the string with much less force than my previous techinque where I was plucking the side of the string.

 

If that makes any sense.

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Same here, was quite an eye & ear opener

[Bleat]

The real trick to it has already been mentioned. It can be tempting to play heavy music with force, but through experience I found it's all about relaxing the fingers and playing quite lightly. I don't play music quite this heavy but play most forms of rock. It took me years to learn to play 2 fingered Steve Harris galloping style, but one day the light bulb came on and realised it was mostly just all down to learning to play more lightly with the right hand and flicking my fingers across the strings.  I also use a very light gauge  30 50 70 85 . Maybe a lighter gauge could be worth trying?

[Grimalkin]

It isn't that easy, alternating back to the E as a pedal constantly in different parts of the bar. It's sequenced, just as the Muse tune mentioned earlier. Something you have to 'automate', and build up slowly from there.

 

Ligaments and tendons work best in a straight line, straightening out the wrist a little helps. A lighter touch and turning the amp up, also mentioned earlier, is the way to retain and release energy over time, but with a louder volume, muting has got to be kept on top of. With the fretting hand, don't use more pressure to fret than is needed. It takes less than you think.

[Grimalkin]

 "Back to the E as a pedal"

 

Back to D. I couldn't be bothered to detune the bass a tone.

[Owen]

Sometimes your 3rd and 4th fingers on your plucking hand wave around a lot. If you put a pencil in your palm and hold it with your 3rd and 4th fingers it lets your 1st and 2nd fingers get on with the job.

[Downunderwonder]

The tendency is to utilise the downbeat downstroking finger to also tag the following pedal note. Bzzzz, tripped up. 

[SteveXFR]

Thanks. Some good tips.

I do hit the strings fairly hard. Geezer Butler is a bit of a bass hero so I've tried to copy his style of picking hard but then Geezer doesn't play fast. 

I'll work on getting a much lighter touch on the strings. It's going to take some time I think. 

[Nail Soup]

  On 27/01/2022 at 08:05, SteveXFR said:

I'll work on getting a much lighter touch on the strings. It's going to take some time I think. 

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Good luck……. I find that learning new stuff is one thing, but breaking old habits much more difficult.

[SteveXFR]

I haven't been playing long enough and I'm not consistent enough to have really old bad habits!

[Lozz196]

The strange thing I found about playing with a lighter touch was that I also found that my fretting hand didn’t grip so forcibly, which has also enabled me to be a bit more nimble around the neck.

[Doddy]

The best way to build up speed is to make sure you can play the line accurately at a slower tempo and gradually build it up.  Maybe start at a slow tempo like 60 bpm and get the line nailed, before upping the tempo by 5 bpm. When you get to a point where it's tripping you up, knock it back 1 or 2 bpm. It might take a while but you'll get there, and more importantly, it will be accurate.

 

Technique wise- don't dig in crazy hard, try to keep your wrist straight, and don't put too much pressure on your thumb if you are anchoring it to the pickup.

[Bolo]

  On 27/01/2022 at 10:18, Doddy said:

The best way to build up speed is to make sure you can play the line accurately at a slower tempo and gradually build it up.  Maybe start at a slow tempo like 60 bpm and get the line nailed, before upping the tempo by 5 bpm. When you get to a point where it's tripping you up, knock it back 1 or 2 bpm. It might take a while but you'll get there, and more importantly, it will be accurate.

 

Technique wise- don't dig in crazy hard, try to keep your wrist straight, and don't put too much pressure on your thumb if you are anchoring it to the pickup.

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Funny enough, the opposite of this also works. Playing the song at speed but playing only the first two notes per bar (or the first and third) and adding notes as you get perfect runs.

 

 

[DawnPatroller]

  On 26/01/2022 at 22:12, Owen said:

Sometimes your 3rd and 4th fingers on your plucking hand wave around a lot. If you put a pencil in your palm and hold it with your 3rd and 4th fingers it lets your 1st and 2nd fingers get on with the job.

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Wow. I am going to attempt this 😂

Some great tips in this thread. 

[Bunion]

  On 27/01/2022 at 09:48, SteveXFR said:

I'm not consistent enough

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There’s your first bad habit 🤣😂 

[Guest]

My 3rd and 4th fingers are busy muting strings, which is weird, because I never asked them to, they just decided that I was sounding a bit more rubbish than I needed to, and started tidying up around me.

 

Great tip I got taught a long time ago on a different instrument, but which applies everywhere: work on the last four notes of a tricky passage first, then the last eight notes, then the last twelve notes, etc. Once you've learnt the whole section, when you're playing through it, you'll always be moving onto a handful of notes you're more familiar with, rather than constantly moving further away from what you're comfortable with.

[Reggaebass]

I’m not a fast player and I’ve never really wanted to be, but a few years back I set about learning a few funk tunes , and I quickly realised that I couldn’t play them unless I learned to play faster, I worked on a few videos from talkingbass, about speed and stamina, and within a few weeks of a couple of hours each night I definitely improved, speed exercises are a good thing to add to your practice routine .

 

 

[Reggaebass]

  On 26/01/2022 at 20:07, Bunion said:

Muse ‘hysteria’ 

it’s a simple bass line

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Really 😲, a friend of mine plays that, I can’t get anywhere near it , I get lost after about 20 seconds 😁

[Bunion]

  On 27/01/2022 at 19:23, Reggaebass said:

Really 😲, a friend of mine plays that, I can’t get anywhere near it , I get lost after about 20 seconds 😁

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The bass line itself is pretty easy, playing It at the 184 bpm is a challenge but keeping that drive for the whole track is devastating until you build the stamina. 
I guess its always easier if you’ve come up with the bass line you play to your own comfort zone. 
Chris wolstenholme makes it look easy as 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Bunion