The dreaded decibel meter

[scalpy]

Hi all. My function band is having difficulty with a venue over a decibel meter. I have no problems with such devices as they need to look after their business, and personally I’m not a fan of loud loud bands anyway, especially at weddings.

 

The venue has a limit of 96dB. As we are not on their list of recommended bands they want us to go and sound check at some point before the event on a day of their choosing between office hours.  None of us can do that because of day jobs. They also want the client to sign a disclaimer that if we trip the meter it’s on us. I have issue with this because after 20 years of functions I know this particular band is more than capable of playing below 96dB-  but an enthusiastic punter singing along if even a healthy round of applause will trip the damn things. 
 

What would you say to this venue? We’ve a good reputation but their issues are making us look bad with the client.

[E sharp]

How important is this venue to you- gig wise?

 

When you say ‘their issues’, that’s exactly that- it’s their issues. 
 

What is the back story here? You mention a ‘client’ ?

 

I’ve been involved in bending over backwards to accommodate a gig, and I’ve also had enough times of telling them to get stuffed- not worth it. Most on here will have done both. 
 

I suppose we’d need more information on the back story to give a proper opinion really. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by E sharp
Fat fingers

[Delberthot]

I would explain to the customer that you all work and are unable to take time away from work to do this but assure them that you will be under the limit during the gig. A customer threatening to move their wedding to another venue is usually enough to persuade the venue to go with the next option:

 

Arrange to arrive at the gig early, making sure that a member of staff who works office hours is there to oversee your soundcheck to make sure that you are under the limit.

 

As you say it's easy enough to play under the limit, it can affect the overall dynamic of the gig, but at least you still get to play and the couple have their chosen band in their chosen venue

 

[Downunderwonder]

Where is the meter? No way applause or a punter should be louder than the band unless the meter is out in the room. I think you are probably worried about nothing.

 

Curious who cops what if the meter is tripped. Isn't the dB limit there to keep from annoying venue neighbours?

[NikNik]

96db measured from where? How big is the venue? 

 

Years ago I played in a pub that had one. It was 10m from PA to meter and it was fun watching it go into orange and stay there. It tripped the power once; not good for valve amps OR the vibe! Can't recall any fines/repercussions. 

[scalpy]

The back story! The client is the bride. It’s a new venue to us. She’s booked us as she’s seen us before and has her heart set on it. We agreed the gig, with the client, ensuring we can set up the night before as it’s midweek, then the venue informs her and us we need to soundcheck as we’re not on their ‘approved’ list of bands. Then the wedding organiser changed and says we can’t set up the night before as agreed with them and the client, and is even more adamant we have this trial set and up- the wording of the communication has the subtext that as we are professional we should be available and accommodating to this demand.
 

So my issue is the goalposts have moved from when the bride signed our contract, and that we are being made responsible for variables beyond our control. For instance, I’ve had dB meters trip because of audiences singing along, dancing on wooden floors, somebody telling a funny story and people laughing (that venue a had meter at the bar set at 70dB 🤦), and fights. The venue are suggesting that if we trip the meter it’s game over for us playing and the bride’s party stops there. We don’t want to let her down but neither can we accommodate all the venues demands either. 

[nilebodgers]

You have a contract with the bride - she needs to sort it out with the other parties that are trying to vary it. 

[lonestar]

That sounds totally unreasonable to me that they expect you to soundcheck before the date for the sake of the poxy db meter/venue without any crowd noise.

 

We played a wedding venue  a few years ago where we sound-checked and all was fine with the meter. First song, first dance, the meter tripped leaving the bride and groom very upset, with the venue not us, as there was nobody to be found to reset it. Fortunately our very clever sound-guy managed to reset it and fix it so it wouldn't go off again.

I've had lots of very crap experiences with stroppywedding venues, particularly the newer re-purposed barn type places that seem to be purely in business to extract as much money as possible, from their clients, while providing very little help.

I want ask them who is actual customer here in such circs.

[Chaosanator]

Have you tried providing them references from other venues with dB readers to provide some assurance that you can stay under that level?

[scalpy]

10 minutes ago, Chaosanator said:

Have you tried providing them references from other venues with dB readers to provide some assurance that you can stay under that level?

That’s a good idea but in ten years of this band we’ve only had one venue with a meter. The one with a 70dB limit at the bar….that didn’t end well. Fortunately they don’t seem that common anymore, most of my experiences with them were on the toilet circuit trying to ‘make it’ 🤣🤣🤣

[pete.young]

I agree the demand to show up in office hours during the week is pretty unreasonable. Worst case is that you all take a day off for the event and show up for an early sound check on the day.

 

I think it's also a good idea to have UPS on your PA, amplification and any equipment such as keyboards and e-drums which require mains power. Sudden loss of power can sometimes damage equipment and even if you escape unscathed it can be a vibe killer. We had a mighty Korg keyboard which took 2 1/2 minutes to re-boot.

[hiram.k.hackenbacker]

The unprofessional part of all of this is expecting a band to turn up on a separate day to soundcheck against a sound meter because you aren't on the 'approved list' - whatever that is. In all my decades of playing in function bands, I never heard such utter tosh. As previously stated, your contract is with the bride. Tell her the sound check cannot happen and she then either has to sort it out or lose you. Her problem, not yours.

[bassfan]

25 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

The unprofessional part of all of this is expecting a band to turn up on a separate day to soundcheck against a sound meter because you aren't on the 'approved list' - whatever that is. In all my decades of playing in function bands, I never heard such utter tosh. As previously stated, your contract is with the bride. Tell her the sound check cannot happen and she then either has to sort it out or lose you. Her problem, not yours.

I agree with @hiram.k.hackenbacker here completely. 
 

We’ve had gigs in the past where the venue has stipulated their regulations on us pre event and post agreeing with bride/groom, one venue insisted we set up before 11am and then leave until we play at 9!! That didn’t happen as they wouldn’t guarantee the safety of our gear 🤷🏻‍♂️
Your contract is with the bride, the venue has moved the goal posts,  she should be involved in sorting this. 
 

We had a party several years ago with a sound limiter and the crowd tripped it singing along. It does happen. 
 

Good luck sorting it. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by bassfan

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, scalpy said:

The back story! The client is the bride. It’s a new venue to us. She’s booked us as she’s seen us before and has her heart set on it. We agreed the gig, with the client, ensuring we can set up the night before as it’s midweek, then the venue informs her and us we need to soundcheck as we’re not on their ‘approved’ list of bands. Then the wedding organiser changed and says we can’t set up the night before as agreed with them and the client, and is even more adamant we have this trial set and up- the wording of the communication has the subtext that as we are professional we should be available and accommodating to this demand.
 

So my issue is the goalposts have moved from when the bride signed our contract, and that we are being made responsible for variables beyond our control. For instance, I’ve had dB meters trip because of audiences singing along, dancing on wooden floors, somebody telling a funny story and people laughing (that venue a had meter at the bar set at 70dB 🤦), and fights. The venue are suggesting that if we trip the meter it’s game over for us playing and the bride’s party stops there. We don’t want to let her down but neither can we accommodate all the venues demands either. 

I would be speaking to the bride and telling her you cannot put your band in such a position to ruin her night. I'd ask her to feed that right back to the wedding planner (they all have massive egos!) and the venue.

[fretmeister]

21 minutes ago, hiram.k.hackenbacker said:

The unprofessional part of all of this is expecting a band to turn up on a separate day to soundcheck against a sound meter because you aren't on the 'approved list' - whatever that is. In all my decades of playing in function bands, I never heard such utter tosh. As previously stated, your contract is with the bride. Tell her the sound check cannot happen and she then either has to sort it out or lose you. Her problem, not yours.

 

This.

 

The situation changed after you agreed the deal with the bride. That's not your problem to solve.

[SteveXFR]

If they want you there during work hours and you all work then tell them they need to pay to cover the income you lose from your day jobs. It's additional to the service you originally quoted to provide so it seems reasonable to charge for it.

[ossyrocks]

You could bypass the whole thing though. Only the sockets on stage will be wired to the meter. In the past we’ve run long mains leads from other sockets up to the stage and powered everything from those. The meter can do what it likes then and the power will stay on. Just don’t let the Jobsworth see you doing it.

[fretmeister]

1 minute ago, ossyrocks said:

You could bypass the whole thing though. Only the sockets on stage will be wired to the meter. In the past we’ve run long mains leads from other sockets up to the stage and powered everything from those. The meter can do what it likes then and the power will stay on. Just don’t let the Jobsworth see you doing it.

 

 

I doubt you'd get away with that in a large wedding venue anymore.

[ossyrocks]

Just now, fretmeister said:

 

 

I doubt you'd get away with that in a large wedding venue anymore.

You’re probably right. But 96db is very low, the punters themselves could trip that.

[Downunderwonder]

How long before the big day? It sounds like the WP has promised you the venue the night before with no authority and/or the venue has booked themselves another gig. Either way between them they are in breach of verbal contract and expect you to just bend over.

 

If you can do a stripped down vocal PA thing that's what I would do. Go take over an open mic some time if you have forgotten how.

[NikNik]

26 minutes ago, ossyrocks said:

You’re probably right. But 96db is very low, the punters themselves could trip that.

Correct. 96db is nothing!! Unless it's ten feet away from you!

[Doddy]

Maybe they just need to meet you to see if you are cool? If the venue is local to you, can't one of you (the bandleader ideally) go down to spec it out before the gig?  It's not uncommon to meet with the venue manager and/or wedding planner before a function, although a full band soundcheck beforehand is crazy.

These venues have their approved bands because they know that they are going to respect the venue rules and not act like tools. They basically want assurance that you are going to be accommodating and easy to work with.

[Dood]

I forget which one, but there's a venue in Norfolk where the limiter is set so low that our drummer had to use an electric kit. I have a video where you can hear me clearly talking whilst stood 6" from the PA.

 

We explained to the audience when their singing tripped the limiter (which isn't something the band would have liked to have done) but thankfully the wedding party took it in good humour. The stupid thing is that at the time, the dance floor wasn't exactly full. It was one of those weddings where people like to sit down. 

 

The band already had a contract in place signed by the wedding party which includes noise limiter disclaimers. I think as a function band, you can't not have every eventuality covered (as much as possible) so you're not left out of pocket or any negative impact of not feeling comfortable with a gig situation arising. 

[chris_b]

The last wedding I did, the noise of the guests tripped the meter several times and the band didn't trip it once. The drummer just kept playing and when the meter reset the band started up. I'm certain no one else noticed.

 

I have never heard of a band having to audition for the sound meter! Does this mean the venue hires you rather than the couple? I don't understand what an audition would prove to the venue. If the couple hires you then it's not the venue's problem if you trip the meter.

 

The last time i played a gig with a meter the drummer tripped the thing over and over and was a d!ck by refusing to hit any softer!

[EBS_freak]

The venue are just trying to safeguard their permission to make noise within certain limits. Can't blame them really, as they want to continue to trade... and they don't want a third party wrecking it for them.

 

From my experience, this is how I'd handle the situation. Doddy is defo on the right path - venues see musicians as an annoyance that they are not in control of.

 

Respond to the venue and state the following - 

1. Respond to the venue, stating that you cannot afford to pre-visit every venue that you play but rest assured, as a professional outfit, you have experience of playing with sound limiters.

2. Acknowledge the fact that the venue are worried about sound levels and state that you of course will work with the venue to ensure that the appropriate sound levels are maintained. Suggest that a responsible member of a staff is present at the sound check to confirm that the band is playing to volumes that satisfy them, bringing a separate sound meter with them if required.

3. Also state that as the venue, they have a responsibility to provide a safe, continuous supply of power to the band, hence, you will not be signing any documentation. (Don't finish on this statement as it sound confrontational). As your part of the deal, you can state that all your equipment is PAT tested and you rely on it for your livelihood, therefore it should not be put at undue risk.

4. State that you will finish the set 15 minutes before curfew and then you will play pre recorded music to naturally bring the volume of the evening to a close. (So don't start playing things like I Predict a riot, Ruby ruby ruby, Brightside etc)

5. The band will respect any requests from the venues staff for you to alter the volume as required and you fully understand the meaning of striking that happy median of playing loud enough to generate the party atmosphere and respecting the neighbours).

6. Say you will be bringing an electric kit

 

Speak to the wedding couple and say that the venue is in touch and set expectations.

1. Performance won't be an issue but will be constrained by sound meter and you have had experience of playing sound metered gigs before.

2. Also state that the venue have a responsibility to provide a safe, continuous supply of power to the band, hence, they should not be signing any documentation.

3. State that you are sick of venues selling themselves as band friendly and say that the venue is completely shady if they have not set expectations of volumes at the time of booking the venue. (This plants the seed and makes the client have those conversations with the venue about their disappointment in a "miss-sold" fact about the suitability for entertainment.)

 

First off, write off the fact that this is going to be a high impact, high energy performance. It's not.

When you sound check -

1. Source an electric kit (if you haven't got access to one already). Every wedding band should get access to them.

2. Make the volume ridiculously low. Uncomfortably low even. It will keep the venue happy and give them the confidence that you aren't going to give them any sound pollution problems. They'll forget the signing of any meaningless documents when they realise that you are reasonable people.

3. Stand your ground if people ask you to turn up and politely encourage people to speak to the venue if there is a problem (preferably the person that was present at sound check).

4. Get through the gig. It probably won't be fun.

 

Additionally, look at the list of "approved" bands. If they are all Mumford and Sons-esque, consider going acoustic. You will need to confirm this with the client. I know, I know... but better to give something the beans acoustic-wise and can actually be quite fun as an alternative. 

 

You'll probably find out, this is all just procedure. In reality, once you remove the email chain, it's very rare that the venue will actually be that proactive in the follow up of anything. You'll probably find out the venue are completely different to how they can come across in emails. In all my years of playing wedding venues, there's only one that comes to memory where the tone of the email matched the guy at the venue. He was a complete pr1ck - I'll write about him in the nightmare thread at some point. Anyway... For example, PAT certificates and insurance - they just want to see a document. I have never had known anybody actually validate that the insurance document, or the PAT cert actually corresponds to the equipment that has turned up. All the venue are doing, is providing an audit that they have made reasonable steps to ensure that they have done the relevant Health and Safety steps to insure that there are no mishaps.

 

Also, looking back at the thread, good to see that somebody else is using UPS. We get 30 mins of playing time off the grid. Most amusing when venues are trying to figure out how we've bypassed the system.

 

Good luck - and don't forget to tell us your post gig story.

 

If it is a disaster down to the sound limiter, get the wedding party to post a review on social media. Don't kill the venue - give them a fair review but write how disappointing it was that venue did not disclose the sound restrictions up front (if they didn't... some do but some couples don't understand the significance of it). <- Mega annoyance of mine. I find it incredible that venues aren't required to disclose such massive constraints upfront.

 

As a side note, in my contracts, I specifically call out the safe power requirements and before I enter into an agreement with any client, I get the sound limiter status of the venue. I then explain the options to the client and whether the client wants to go forward with the band playing. In reality, I don't want sound limiter gigs, so tend to price myself out the market. The only ones that I'm not too bothered by taking, are the ones where I plug into sound systems where the venue provides the PA. This is becoming more and more common. I just turn up with the IEM setup and output to venue system.... which no doubt has a horrendous brick wall limiter on it and makes everything sound awful. But hey. What can you do?

 

Good luck and hope this helps.

Edited February 2, 2022 by EBS_freak