Building a back friendly bass cab?

[hankhill]

Looks like my Ashdown RM combo may have blown one of its 10” speakers.  Funnily enough that’ll be the second 2x10 combo speaker I’ve blown in recent years, the last was a GK210 combo that I never much liked, especially after that.

I’m thinking about a back-friendly alternative. Even the lightweight Ashdown combo wrecks my old back sometimes.  I also have a 15” matching RM cabinet and I carry both at the same time to balance things, but if the car is a few hundred yards from the gig its quite an ordeal for an old man like me.  So, I’ve been thinking for a while of getting a 2 x 12 cabinet and putting some recessed wheels on the back for easy moving - https://www.flightcasefittings.co.uk/4-recessed-corner-castor-w2100.html , maybe also with a slide out handle.  Has anyone done this?  I play pub gigs where space is a premium, so forget 4x10, 8x10, etc.

 

I’ve seen a used unloaded TC 212 bass cabinet for sale, which begs my real question as to what speakers might be a good choice to go in it.  There’s a huge spread in cost, from £40 no-name 12” bass drivers to several hundred pounds each; I’m trying to do this on a sensible budget otherwise I might as well go buy a Markbass or similar.  I’ve seen these drivers at £70- each - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/401752853019?hash=item5d8a560a1b:g:nvUAAMXQyY1TRE6c EMINENCE BETA 12" 250w BASS SPEAKER 8ohm, NEW

 

So £150 for two, plus say £50 for the cab, plus wheels and a handle, that’s doable.  Any opinions?  Or should I just pay a lot more and go buy a Markbass 122 Ninja 2 x 12"and screw some wheels on it?  To be clear, I’m not wishing to discuss brands and sound quality, what I’m looking for is portability on a sensible budget.

[MichaelDean]

There are people here who know a lot more than me about it, but the enclosures are generally designed for the speakers. You might get lucky, you might not. 

 

I've got a Zilla neo 212 (around 23kg) that I move long distances with a folding sack truck I got from Aldi. It works really well. Plus I can fit my pedalboard and head on it too.

[BassBunny]

This might just complete the puzzle for a very low outlay.

https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/440067-eminence-12-bass-speakers-x2/

[Phil Starr]

As one of the people designing speakers on Bass Chat I'll do my best.

 

You seem to have considered most of the options or they have been suggested to you.

 

Lighter Cab

Wheeled Cab/Sack Truck

 

Some sort of self build or modification seems to be something you are prepared to contemplate, so is the self build bespoke solution your preferred option or just the means to an end. I always advise people that self build is rarely a money saving proposition in that sometimes it works out but usually the cost of the materials and the new speakers  works out similar to the cost of a second hand cab. A second hand cab can always be sold for pretty much what you paid for it. If you radically alter a cab it is likely to dramatically reduce it's saleability/price. Having said that a self build is really good fun and you learn a lot. sometimes it's the only way of getting exactly what you want.

 

I've got a Lidl sack truck. They are cheap lightweight and pack down small. adding castors is simple and you can buy handles that fit on the top rear edge of a cab for wheeling.

 

For lightweight you could go down a size. A single 12 if it's a good one will match an old 2x10 in output and that saves the weight of a magnet and frame. the smaller cab saves weight too. Whatever speaker size you use a neo magnet speaker will save you a couple of kg's per speaker on average. You can save more by using lightweight materials to make the cab. Another back saving solution is to split the cab. An 18kg 2x10 will weigh 10kg per cab if you buy it as a pair of 1x10's.

 

Something like a Barefaced 1x12 will almost certainly have enough output for you and has a lightweight cab with a neo speaker. Other brands are available  If you want to build there are designs by @stevie and myslf on here that will perform as well and come in at similar weights. There's also a 1x10 design. Just swapping speakers around is slightly more complex. Speakers and cabs are carefully matched and not every speaker will work in every cab. We can advise you.

 

Think about what you really want and come back here

[Muzz]

FWIW, I replaced the cheapo Chinese Eminence speaker in my Rumble 100 with one of those Beta 12s, after finding a good deal of (admittedly anecdotal) reports on people getting good results in the cab.

 

As has been stated above, tho, speaker replacement's a bit of a gamble on what speaker works in what cab; I also made things less crucial because I cut all the bass out of the Rumble; in the scenario where I use it I'm into the PA and just using it for stage monitoring.

 

I also have a couple of BF cabs which are light and loud (the Super Twin is 40lbs or so, and has wheels), but I'm guessing they're above the OP's budget...

 

Oh, and I have a light sack trolley, too...all good except for Fricking Stairs...

[fretmeister]

Used barefaced?

 

Not sure you'll find anything lighter.

 

I went through this process and ended up with a Super Twin (wheels!!!) and a One10. Funnily enough the ST is often easier to deal with than the One10 when I want to do 1 trip from the car just because of the wheels.

I can manage lifting it easily enough in and out of the car - but I have an estate with a flat boot area so there isn't a lip to get it over. In an ideal world the cab would have a couple of metal runners on the back to make that even easier, but that would put the weight up a bit.

 

I almost always take the Super Twin, then add a Sandberg Super Light bass, my Ashdown RM800Evo2 and a compressor pedal.

 

The rig is light enough for 1 trip, and I'm amused that my folder of sheet music weighs more than the Ashdown. Next step will be a big cheap tablet and scanning it all on.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[hankhill]

Thanks for all the replies.  I had considered the folding sack barrow, in fact I do have one, so I’ll give that a serious try next time i need to carry the cabs a long distance.  My cheapest option of course is going to be to fix the blown speaker in the Ashdown, I bought that rig for its lightness and its been OK for a couple of years now.  I REALLY like the look of the Barefaced Super Twin though, but just shy of a grand… mind you my band now has over 20 pub gigs booked so far for this year, so it may justify.  I don’t have any fixed budget and I’m fortunate in having a very tolerant wife.

 

I’m a technical guy so I agree that the cab and speaker are designs that need to work together, but when I removed one of the 10” speakers yesterday to check it, my Ashdown combo cabinet is just an empty plain square box (made of soft cheap ply) so I struggle to see how that’s really matched to the speakers😊

 

I tend to play smaller pub gigs but we do play the odd slightly larger venue, see photo. In this place last Saturday they couldn’t DI me so I had to fill it with the Ashdown which was fine, even after I disconnected the two 10’s after one started farting, and just used the 15. 

 

My main concern with a single 12 or even 15 cab (aside from volume in a larger venue) would be having to bend down to make any adjustments and having nowhere to hang the bass😊 so that’s why I was thinking of a vertical 2 x 12 as being a decent compromise.  I’m 6 foot 3 and my Ashdown combo and cabinet together stand 110cm high, so ergonomically that’s good.

 

I saw the empty TC BC212 on eBay which made me think of this option, adding some wheels and a handle (and speakers…).  However, the (full) TC BC212 is “only” rated at 250W with the original speakers, and my Ashdown rig with both cabinets is 500 watts in theory, so I fear it would be a backward step.

 

In terms of head/amp, that’s a whole new discussion.  I’m pretty happy with the RM500 amp in the Ashdown combo, and there are lots of choices of lightweight class D amps these days, so I’ll worry about that when the time comes.  I’ll keep looking out for a decent 212 cabinet that I can modify and try the sack barrow in the meantime to save my back.  I wouldn’t do a full self-build; I have the confidence in my ability, and the tools, but lack the workshop space.

 

Someone mentioned a lightweight bass too, and I have tried several options over the years including a couple of Yamaha RBXA2’s.  I have a couple of 90’s Japanese Precisions, both 50’s re-issues, that are Basswood and around 7 pounds, and I also have a couple of G&L Tributes (SB-2 and Kiloton) that are really comfy to play, but just sound a bit sterile IMHO.  I keep going back to my lovely 2003 USA Precision Deluxe at nearly 9 pounds, in the photo.  But that’s another whole new discussion😊

[FirstBass]

I'm currently contemplating building a "modular" setup of dinky 1 x 10 cabs loaded with Beyma 10CMV2 drivers (thanks @fleabag)

 

1 for home/rehearsal - 8 ohm

2 for small pub - 4 ohm

3 in a column with a strap round them for a bigger pub - 2.66 ohm

4 for outdoor in conventional 4 x 10 format - 2 ohm

 

30L enclosures made from 12mm ply. Toolstation manrose pipe porting and Rustin's step paint finish (see? - i'm cheap!). May even skip a tweeter on the first to see how it sounds. 

 

This way I can take what I need. 

 

I've sized the design to slip into a cheap Thomann cajon case. Bit of protection and the ability to carry like a rucksack....

 

3 can be cut from an 8 x 4 sheet

 

My partner is overjoyed at the prospect of more cabs in the spare room 

 

I'm such a nerd.....

 

 

[Phil Starr]

The matching of cab to speaker isn't rocket science and with software to do the calculations not time consuming. There are rally only two variables to get a cab that works (though plenty of nerdy tweaks to squeeze a bit more performance). If a cab has the right volume and tuning to match a speakers parameters then it's going to be OK. If they don't you'll probably be messing up the bass response and crucially they won't handle high power levels and you could end up blowing speakers. That's worse case and most drivers have similar characteristics so swaps are only sometimes catastrophic. If you go that route, of swapping drivers, pm me and I can tell you if you are headed for disaster or not.

 

Here are the build threads , though you seem to have decided this is not for you 

[Marty Forrer]

I built a 2x12 with tiltback castors and handle, plus side handles. With GK Neo speakers it weighs 18kg, is rated at 600 watts RMS and projects a low B string like crazy. It's the third cab I've built, the first two were Greenboy Fearfuls.

[chris_b]

If you are thinking about "back friendly" gear you should do whatever it takes to keep future back issues at bay.

 

So you're not using the trolley you already own, and you're carrying 2 cabs at the same time, and you don't own lightweight cabs!

 

My first thoughts would be to use the trolley, only carry one cab at a time, buy the lightest cab I could find, which wouldn't be a 212, and I would do all of 3 them.

 

I use 1 or 2 112's (at 21lbs each) and if using both I put them on a trolley. I have a bad back, a suspected herniated disc. I wish I had this rig 15 years ago then I would still be fit and healthy.

[hankhill]

The cabs are relatively lightweight, that’s why I bought them. The Ashdown combo is 17kg and the 1x15 cab is 15kg.  I was surprised to find out that the Ashdown WhiteLine speakers are not Neodymium, just cheapo ceramic magnets; I didn’t realise this until the replacements I ordered from Ashdown arrived yesterday.  Out of interest I weighed the cabs with and without speakers today while fitting them, and the speakers are responsible for around 1/3 of the overall weight - I thought it would be more.  So changing them to Neo speakers would help a little, and if they blow again I’d consider doing that.  Mind you if they blow again I’ll be more inclined to change the whole rig😊

 

It was actually my chiropractor that suggested that I carry both cabs together, as my lower back pain is caused by pelvic tilt, and lifting a larger weight in balance is apparently a lower risk to me than a smaller weight on one side.  I will definitely use the trolley in future through.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Pelvic tilt is a symptom, not a cause. When my lower back gets inflamed I tilt, and it has nothing to do with carrying an uneven load, which I never do. It happens because when my lower back becomes inflamed it does so more on my left side than my right. That makes me lean to the right, because it hurts too much to stay straight.

 

I've been to chiropractors, they were all quacks. None had any answer for my arthritis sourced lower back pain that regularly delivered me with crippling bouts of sciatica. Through my own research I found an effective treatment, turmeric capsules. I take two 500mg a day, every day. It's a low dose anti-inflammatory that builds up in your body to control inflammation. Thanks to it pain that used to last a week a more is now gone in a day or two, and I haven't had sciatica in seven years. It's effectiveness is increased when combined with black pepper, and you can buy capsules that contain both. I don't bother with that, as I consume black pepper with pretty much every meal.

 

The supporting evidence can be seen in Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis. They get arthritis at the same rate as everyone else, but don't suffer pain from it nearly as much. That's because they practically live on curry, which is mainly turmeric and black pepper. They also have some of the lowest death rates from Covid, because the main cause of Covid deaths is inflammation that blocks the airways.

[hankhill]

That’s really interesting, thanks Bill. I will get some Tumeric tablets ASAP. I had heard of the effectiveness of tumeric for a long time.  I have been taking gin soaked raisins (Google it) for a couple of months on recommendation from another muso but I’m not sure how well that works. I’m not in constant pain but when it goes it goes suddenly and I go to a chiropractor that does help, he has a unique technique of sharply slapping things back into place, which reduces the muscles fighting back. He really does help my back problem, until next time that is. 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Drink the gin, bag the raisins. I've had back trouble for 35 years. Once it got to the point that only Vicodin gave me relief I finally did the research and found out about turmeric. It has been a life changer for me. This is what I take, not that you'd order it from the UK, but for comparison purposes: https://www.puritan.com/puritans-pride-brand-0102/tumeric-curcumin-450-mg-015419

[blisters on my fingers]

How long did it take to notice the beneficial effect of the turmeric capsules Bill ?

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

It takes about a month to fully kick in, and then you take it indefinitely. 2000mg a day to start, then after 30 days 1000mg a day for maintenance. I weigh around 100 kg, so if you're much smaller you might get away with less. It's not an analgesic, so you don't take it when you have pain and then stop. It's more like a daily vitamin that lessens the potential for pain to occur in the first place, and makes it far less severe if it does.

[fleabag]

The active anti-inflammatory ingredient in turmeric is curcumin.  It's possible just to buy the active ingredient separately, should anyone want to.

[BassBunny]

6 hours ago, hankhill said:

That’s really interesting, thanks Bill. I will get some Tumeric tablets ASAP. I had heard of the effectiveness of tumeric for a long time.  I have been taking gin soaked raisins (Google it) for a couple of months on recommendation from another muso but I’m not sure how well that works. I’m not in constant pain but when it goes it goes suddenly and I go to a chiropractor that does help, he has a unique technique of sharply slapping things back into place, which reduces the muscles fighting back. He really does help my back problem, until next time that is. 

I have been taking Tumeric for years.

I had Pureclinica 1000mg tablets recommended as they don't have any filler. Kept me honest.