Sidlanir Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 5 minutes ago, Bassassin said: The Kubicki bridge always struck me as enormously over-complex & over-engineered compared to other headless bridge/tuner designs. Not sure anyone actually improved on the simplicity & elegance of Steinberger's original - which is, I suppose, why most other headless bridge designs imitate it. I don't agree, the original Steinberger Bass Bridge is a mess to setup the intonation ( I still have my all graphite Steinberger bass lying in shop around) Ned's design was based on the bass , the bridge was designed by Jeff Babicz ... Phil was an innovator ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 4 hours ago, Sidlanir said: Many thanks for your feedback, I'll contact a few University next to Luxembourg , the best I know is Aachen or Tübingen in Germany... maybe one student would be interested to do his master's degree.... You may get lucky and find someone doing vibration analysis for their masters but it would have to fit what they've already planned to do and that's quite specific. It's more likely they'll offer to do it for a fee. Ask on an engineering forum, it's really simple to test and the equipment is really minimal and cheap, you might find someone prepared to do it for beer money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Sidlanir said: I don't agree, the original Steinberger Bass Bridge is a mess to setup the intonation ( I still have my all graphite Steinberger bass lying in shop around) Ned's design was based on the bass , the bridge was designed by Jeff Babicz ... Phil was an innovator ! I disagree. Changed over to flatwounds on my headless bass. With Steinberger bridge. Intonation taken less than 3 or 4 minutes. Unlocked the saddles easily via 1 screw. Move the pieces back and forth. Found can easily do it while strings still under tension. And if they dodnt move easily loosen the strings. Very stable bridge. Very easy to use and change strings. I heard they were good but I was surprised, as probably the easiest bridge to set up, intonate and tune. And they have proven themselves for nearly 40 years and still work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted February 17, 2022 Share Posted February 17, 2022 (edited) If you like it buy it, if you don't don't. Live and let live. Some people like Rickenbacker, me pointing out the obvious wrongness of their preferences doesn't really get us anywhere. If you make something unusual, and want people to buy it you have to do a bit more on your marketing to convince people to want it, for whatever reason you choose. If you don't then likely less people will buy it. For what it's worth, I kinda get the design from a mechanical problem solving perspective, and would much rather have one than one of these ... Edited February 18, 2022 by LukeFRC 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 8 hours ago, LukeFRC said: If you like it buy it, if you don't don't. Live and let live. Some people like Rickenbacker, be pointing out the obvious wrongness of their preferences doesn't really get us anywhere. If you make something unusual, and want people to buy it you have to do a bit more on your marketing to convince people to want it, for whatever reason you choose. If you don't then likely less people will buy it. For what it's worth, I kinda get the design from a mechanical problem solving perspective, and would much rather have one than one of these ... The Ray Ross Bass bridge is a nice Bridge, but it's not so easy to do the adjustments under full tension, IMO I see the moments of force that occur in the static state or during the playing as critical. A 45 G string in normal tuning pulls almost 30 kg and that's quite a lot of "breaking moment" that affects the construction in the long run (long term aspect). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 10 minutes ago, Sidlanir said: The Ray Ross Bass bridge is a nice Bridge, but it's not so easy to do the adjustments under full tension, IMO I see the moments of force that occur in the static state or during the playing as critical. A 45 G string in normal tuning pulls almost 30 kg and that's quite a lot of "breaking moment" that affects the construction in the long run (long term aspect). A constant load causes no wear or fatigue in steel so won't affect construction long term. Dynamic (cyclic) loads can cause cracking over time but strain (deformation under load) is a major factor in that so unless you've got significant flex in the bridge then that's not an issue. Just look at the number of 50's fender and Gibson bridges still going strong from the days long before FEA and fatigue modelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SteveXFR said: A constant load causes no wear or fatigue in steel so won't affect construction long term. Dynamic (cyclic) loads can cause cracking over time but strain (deformation under load) is a major factor in that so unless you've got significant flex in the bridge then that's not an issue. Just look at the number of 50's fender and Gibson bridges still going strong from the days long before FEA and fatigue modelling. The full string tension is on the vertical pin ( Ball ends holding & string height adjustment ) & not as you 've mentioned on Fenders basses at the end of the bass bridge ... Edited February 18, 2022 by Sidlanir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 1 hour ago, Sidlanir said: The full string tension is on the vertical pin ( Ball ends holding & string height adjustment ) & not as you 've mentioned on Fenders basses at the end of the bass bridge ... That doesn't matter, the basic mechanical principles still apply. There is no potential for fatigue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
such Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) It's claimed there's science behind it, yet any skepticism is shot down, members insulted for not understanding basic physics, the "science" is not demonstrable because the Big Bass Bridge conspiracy stole all the funds, media access and means of manufacturing. Real science loves skepticism and loves being demonstrated. Loves being PUT TO THE TEST. What does "better vibration transmission" mean anyway? More? Less? More even across frequency spectrum? More focused in a certain part of it? Would my P bass sound more like a P bass with this bridge, or less so? Edited February 18, 2022 by such 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) You can't claim its science without evidence, maths or theory to back it up Edited February 18, 2022 by SteveXFR 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 this was my first sketch of my EVO Bass Bridge .... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassfinger Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 3 hours ago, SteveXFR said: You can't claim its science without evidence, maths or theory to back it up A detail like that never stopped the tonewood devotees! 🤣 2 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 On 17/02/2022 at 13:59, Sidlanir said: @neepheid Jens Johnsen is the inventor of this kind of bass bridge ... he stopped the distribution & sale of his bridge , due to lack of interrest.... I had unfortunalety the same idea & Jens Johnsen contacted me & we exchanged our point of view ... attached is a schematic picture of the bass bridge ... take a look & try to understand the functionality.... You have a tube screwing into a bridge body. The string is angled against the lip of the tube. Any flex in the tube will absorb vibration and reduce sustain. Any movement in the thread/thread interface will also absorb vibration, but if there's no movement, the tube can't be screwed in and out. It seems flawed in such a way as to defeat the very objectives that it sets out to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 On 17/02/2022 at 16:19, Sidlanir said: The EVO Bass Bridge substantially improves the transmission of the string vibration, in order to improve the sound and simultaneously to prevent the danger of injury and any possible dirt deposits. The solid base body of the EVO Bass bridge has, for each string, an EVO Cam, wherein the axis of the cam extends perpendicularly to the string axis. The EVO Cam is rotatable within the base body for carrying out the vertical adjustment of the string. Each EVO Cam has a string through bore which extends perpendicularly to the EVO Cam axis. The base body also has a through bore which is in alignment with the string through bore of the cylinder. A string intonation tube, through which the corresponding string extends, is mounted in the string through bore, to be adjustable in longitudinal direction of the string through bore in order to adjust the length of the string. The vertical adjustment of the string is carried out by rotating the EVO Cam. The adjustment of the tension of the string is affected by adjusting the string intonation tube. In accordance with a preferred feature, each String intonation tube is fastened in the respective string through bore by means of a threaded connection, so that the tension of the string can be adjusted by screwing the intonation tube into the EVO Cam or out of the EVO Cam by a certain extent. Due to the fact that the string intonation tube has, because of its shape, an elongated bore in the direction of the string, a large contact surface area is available for the string at the points where the string enters and exits the string intonation tube. Thus, a continuous increase of the inert mass is obtained from the first contact point of the string with the string intonation tube, where the string enters the intonation tube in the direction toward the instrument body. The solid construction of the base body of the EVO Bass Bridge leads to a good pick-up of axial, vertical, and horizontal vibrations. The way the string extends through the string intonation tube to the end point of the string at the base body results in an essentially three-dimensional string suspension which picks up and transmits in each direction of vibration in an optimum manner. In summary, the EVO Bass bridge provides a better transmission of the string vibrations to the resonance body, while simultaneously increasing and extending the sustaining period of the string. Moreover, the adjustment of the height of the string and of the tension thereof can be affected in a simple and reproducible manner. So rotating the cam affects the string height, and screwing the intonation tube in and out changes the intonation - and surely will also change the string height. But then changing the angle of the tube in order to set the string height back to where you want it will also affect the intonation. So it would be an absolute nightmare to set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 9 hours ago, Sidlanir said: this was my first sketch of my EVO Bass Bridge .... That looks interesting. Are the circular parts eccentric cams to raise and lower the string height, or does the string pass over the central cylindrical part of it and you rotate it to set the height, then clamp it with the top pieces? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 “I’m out” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fleabag Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Thank you Deborah 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Genuine question - at £320 is this the world’s most expensive bass bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveXFR Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 I guess one very important question is, will it be made from top quality tone metals? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 9 hours ago, tauzero said: You have a tube screwing into a bridge body. The string is angled against the lip of the tube. Any flex in the tube will absorb vibration and reduce sustain. Any movement in the thread/thread interface will also absorb vibration, but if there's no movement, the tube can't be screwed in and out. It seems flawed in such a way as to defeat the very objectives that it sets out to improve. Would Locknuts on the threaded bit to fix it in place work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ern500evo Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 Looking at how the strings are anchored, and the Evo cam, am I right in thinking that if I break the A string on a 5er mid gig, to change it I have to remove either the B and E string or the G and D string to get the A string off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 8 hours ago, Drax said: Genuine question - at £320 is this the world’s most expensive bass bridge? no the hipshot 5 string headless bass bridge is at the same price ... & the RML is also at the same price ... check out before shooting ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, SteveXFR said: I guess one very important question is, will it be made from top quality tone metals? Aeronautical AL 6060 is it good enough for Mr Ingeniere cazz ... Edited February 19, 2022 by Sidlanir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 1 hour ago, ern500evo said: Looking at how the strings are anchored, and the Evo cam, am I right in thinking that if I break the A string on a 5er mid gig, to change it I have to remove either the B and E string or the G and D string to get the A string off? take always 2 basses on every gig .... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidlanir Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 15 hours ago, tauzero said: So rotating the cam affects the string height, and screwing the intonation tube in and out changes the intonation - and surely will also change the string height. But then changing the angle of the tube in order to set the string height back to where you want it will also affect the intonation. So it would be an absolute nightmare to set up. You're absolutely right , it's worse than a nightmare ... you'll need more than 2 days & nights to adjust the string height & intonation 🤣 😂..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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