Busy playing vs self confidence

[ossyrocks]

I’ve been playing my new to me P bass a lot this week, and yesterday a had a bit of an epiphany.

 

I’ve played in many bands over the last three decades, always on guitar, bass is a new adventure for me, but I’m seeing playing now from a different perspective.

 

Over the years I have had the pleasure and honour to play with some of the greatest bass players, Scott Whitley (latterly Big Country), Roberto Ruiz ( Jake Stigers, The Animals) and many more.

 

Some of the guys could be described as “busy” players, others just sat right in the pocket and grooved, keeping it simple but jaw droppingly musical and appropriate. 
 

What I’m finding now, playing bass myself, is that I am tending to over play, too many notes, too fast, and I know I’m doing it, and I want to move past it. I think with me it comes down to my lack of confidence in my own abilities and I’m over compensating by playing too much.

 

 I want to reach a point where I can play the simplest of grooves which absolutely serve the music.

 

I feel some of the busy players I’ve gigged with over the years similarly lacked a degree of self confidence  and held a degree of self doubt, even struggled with their mental health,  and perhaps used bravado on gigs to mask it.

 

The Bass players I most admired playing with, were more relaxed individuals, confident in their abilities, and therefore could just relax, listen, and lay down the greatest grooves and bass lines without ever getting “busy”, overplaying, or deterring from the material. Roberto Ruiz was/is one of those guys, and now I’m playing bass, I have a new found respect for how he managed to achieve this.

 

I suppose the point I’m trying to make is that personality and self confidence is a factor in how one might approach playing bass, and affects how one’s bass lines either sit perfectly or subtly work against the material. So, I’m determined to understand the instrument and the fretboard on a deeper level, try to be more relaxed whilst playing, so that I may one day become that guy who just grooves, doesn’t stand out like a sore thumb, and doesn’t over play.

 

What do you think?

 

Rob

[Steve Browning]

I think I agree with you. I think the type of instrument you play also has a bearing.

 

In my (old guard) simple way, I always think bass players are either Precision bass players, or Jazz bass players. By that, I mean that a bass that gives more definition (for want of a better expression) invites the player to play more notes. That's a massive generalisation, I accept, but I think there's a lot of truth in it. That's not to denigrate anybody at all. It's just what I've observed over the years.

 

Additionally, people have their own definition of the role in the band and how it is achieved. Again, there is no right or wrong answer. It's entirely down to the individual.

[Grimalkin]

Everything in its right place. There's nothing to prove.

[Lozz196]

I’ve just joined a new band, 1st gig last night. I stick with the drummer and have had a good few comments about how I hold the band together. I’ve tinkered with adding a few runs in, but for me it’s understanding the space where to do it. I don’t want to get in the way of the singer, who has a great voice, no point in doing it where the lead guitar is playing a riff/melody associated with the song, and not when the drummer does a roll. There is still the space fit me to add stuff and I do, but I think it is self confidence/awareness to play where I can, not what I can.

[Steve Browning]

I always sum it up (in my own mind) as 'the best way to impress is not to try'.

[Woodinblack]

Honestly never noticed a correlation between 'busyness' and confidence, I think it is more down to style. You get guys like Geddy Lee, John Entwhistle and Chris Squire who you could class as 'busy', I don't know Geddy Lee and John Entwhistle but can certainly say first hand Chris Squire was not someone obviously lacking confidence!

 

I also don't think it is the bass either, pretty well all basses can make all sounds if you try hard enough. Jamersons P bass had next to no definition but he wasn't a root and fifths sort of guy

 

I think it is just a style and how you want to play. If you want to do a few notes and just beef up the bottom end, fine, do that. If you want to do the solos, fine do that, but I think that reading a reason other than your style into it is probably wrong. In your case, maybe you are playing more notes because of a lack of confidence, only you know that, but you can't assume that is true for all.

 

For me, if bass was about playing root and fifths or just filling in the low end, I don't think I would bother. 

[Woodinblack]

2 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

I always sum it up (in my own mind) as 'the best way to impress is not to try'.

 

Frankly, unless you are at an audition, if your goal is to impress people on a bass, you have picked the wrong instrument!

[AndyTravis]

I’m a kitchen sink kind of player.

 

Then I strip it back, as time goes on - I’m playing less busy stuff, but I tend to play chords etc to fill sounds out so guitarist can play accent lines etc.

 

@lee650says I play guitar bass.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited March 16, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[White Cloud]

I think it's entirely dependent upon the context: the material you're playing. Simply put, some musical styles tend towards more space for individual expression than others.

 

I think it's key to consider what the listener might want to hear, as opposed to what the musician necessarily wants to play. 

[Marvin]

I don't play busy at all. That's nothing to do with confidence,  it's that I've no idea what I'm doing.

[Delberthot]

it depends on the song. there are some songs that warrant keeping it simple, others are crying out for fiddly bits and improvisation.

 

I'd consider myself to be a very busy player but not to the detriment of the band or the perfomance. I'm lucky to have ben given carte blanche to play pretty much whatever I want.

 

I don't believe that It's a self confidence issue with me but a predecessor of mine had this issue. He had no idea what he was playing so his thinking was that if he played enough notes then eventually he'd hit the right ones

[Doddy]

I don't think busy playing is a lack of self confidence. If you are confident in what you are doing, you can play busily and still make everything groove and sound great. Look at players like Rocco, Jaco, and Jamerson- all of them could be described as busy players, yet they all grooved hard. 

As you've changed from guitar to bass, it could be that you aren't fully in the bass mindset yet. That's not a negative thing, but it is a different approach. It could be that you need to focus a little more on rhythmic subtleties like note placement, and whether you are playing on top of or behind the beat.  It's little things like that that make a big difference.

 

If you are confident and know what you're doing, you can get away with being a busy player.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Doddy

[EBS_freak]

I with Doddy on this - there's a difference in playing busily and playing busily and grooving like a MF.

 

Here's my exhibit A for busy but absolutely smashing a home run because you have your musicality and skills all suitably honed rather than playing around with pentatonic nonsense.

 

 

[chris_b]

I have nothing against busy players, only players who overplay or show off.

 

A few years ago an American bassist told me I was a "meat and potatoes" player. I'd never heard that expression before but I guess he's right. I place myself in the same ballpark as John McVie, Willie Weeks, Dave Bronze and Duck Dunn, with a smattering of Nathan East.

 

Sometimes my confidence is high, very often it's nowhere to be seen!! I've learnt to live with that.

 

Simple isn't always appreciated, but it is what most people want. I serve the song, the band and the groove and leave the histrionics to others.

[SumOne]

The way I approach it is that just because a Bass looks like a Guitar doesn't mean it should be played like one -  it evolved from the role/sound of the Double Bass and should be played with the mindset that providing a solid harmonic & rhythmic foundation is the priority. There are many other instruments (almost all of them) that are better suited to displays of fast melodic virtuoso stuff and people should play them if that's their musical interest. (Obviously just my opinion, I do find virtuoso lead melodic Bass players impressive but it just isn't my bag as a listener or player). 

 

[Downunderwonder]

11 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

I think you are over complicating it.

Not 'arf!

 

I'll complicate it some more. Often something simple does stick out like a sore thumb but be totally appropriate.

[Boodang]

I love the story of when Jaco first started playing with Weather Report. He really goes for it and Zawinul just says, look we know you can play, you just need to chill a bit. 

Not in the same league but I was in a band, I hated this one song and decided to sabotage it by playing the absolute minimum amount of notes I could when we were in the studio. When we finished recording the band congratulated me on my best, most sensitive playing yet!

[Boodang]

PS want to slow down and groove more? Then get a double bass. Even if you just use it for practice, it will change the way you approach bass playing in general.

Even a cheap EUB, like the Stagg, will do the job.

[EBS_freak]

Either that, or sharpen your strings.

[Grahambythesea]

I agree with @Boodang having recently switched to an EUB it kind of forces you to play less, in a good way!

[Grimalkin]

Fretless has a habit of concentrating the mind. 

[dclaassen]

Consider jazz saxophonists. Lots of them throw a huge amount of notes into a solo, trying to sound like Coltrane. Most don't have the skills, understanding, or musicianship to pull it off. I cannot play like my heroes...Ron Carter, Stanley, Jaco, Jamerson, etc. I don't have to if I remember my job, and listen and feel the music carefully. If I can make a good drummer smile, then I think I've done my job pretty well. 

[Paul S]

I really dislike overplaying.  I once shared a gig with a soul band and the bass player overplayed his way through the entire set.  Huge player and technically miles better than I could ever hope to be but, for me, his eagerness to show off his chops ruined the gig.

 

My own playing is rather 'agricultural'.  I don't understand very much music theory, can just about read tab and, as an absolute last resort (and given enough time) could eventually decipher some dots.   Nor do I have too many chops to show off - I play well with a pick but my fingerstyle is ragged beyond 8th notes - anything else just forget it.  But I've learnt that these deficiences can actually work in my favour.  Generally speaking I have always played covers and so I learn the bass lines I need to.  I always play for the song because the song is all I know and, as a general rule, the people I play with like that.  Within my limitations I've a decent enough touch, even if technically incompetent   If I need to come up with an original line I just think back to other runs etc I have used in similar music that work well then cut and paste them all together.  A kind of Blue Peter approach.  I keep thinking that one day someone will find me out  

[Doddy]

8 hours ago, Boodang said:

PS want to slow down and groove more? Then get a double bass. Even if you just use it for practice, it will change the way you approach bass playing in general.

Even a cheap EUB, like the Stagg, will do the job.

I haven't really found that playing upright changed my approach to electric bass, because I view them as different instruments. If anything though, I find it a little frustrating that I don't quite have the speed and fluidity on upright that I do on electric.