Fender am jazz bass tone

[Majid]

I’ll look into both the fender action height comparing with Yamaha’s and also the treble adjustment impact on the fender via a preamp. Both points are valid and worth checking. And then I’ll get back with a result. Many thanks for all the good feedbacks and guidance.

cheers!

[Majid]

By the way, do you have any idea about how high the action should be roughly for slapping purpose. I understand that it’s probably different from bass to bass and there is no firm standard for that but just as a rough figure based on your experience with Fender J bass…..

[Tdw]

Just now, Majid said:

By the way, do you have any idea about how high the action should be roughly for slapping purpose. I understand that it’s probably different from bass to bass and there is no firm standard for that but just as a rough figure based on your experience with Fender J bass…..

I've not used a jazz bass for a while, but for slapping the lower the better on any bass. Some people including me set the action on a bass intended to be used primarily for slap so low that when played finger style it is sub optimal - the odd buzz or scrape noise coming through occasionally. Generally I would say set it as low as you can get away with for playing fingers style or pick or whatever your "standard" playing style is. Lower is almost always better for slap but it will usually be a compromise because you probably want it higher for fingerstyle.

[horrorshowbass]

A zoom b4 will give you multiple usable bright tones as well as a drum machine, tuner etc. 

I have an RBX 775 and comparing to a jazz is chalk and cheese. The yamaha is pure active double humbucker power.

A passive jazz won't do this without a decent pre no matter how uts set up. The zoom will get you there for under 100 quid.

[Majid]

2 hours ago, horrorshowbass said:

A zoom b4 will give you multiple usable bright tones as well as a drum machine, tuner etc. 

I have an RBX 775 and comparing to a jazz is chalk and cheese. The yamaha is pure active double humbucker power.

A passive jazz won't do this without a decent pre no matter how uts set up. The zoom will get you there for under 100 quid.

Thanks. I will check the zoom b4 as well. Do you have any idea about the two preamps I mentioned above? 

[Majid]

6 hours ago, Tdw said:

I've not used a jazz bass for a while, but for slapping the lower the better on any bass. Some people including me set the action on a bass intended to be used primarily for slap so low that when played finger style it is sub optimal - the odd buzz or scrape noise coming through occasionally. Generally I would say set it as low as you can get away with for playing fingers style or pick or whatever your "standard" playing style is. Lower is almost always better for slap but it will usually be a compromise because you probably want it higher for fingerstyle.

Hi Tdw,

I measured the action. On Fender it’s nearly 1 mm higher than on Yamaha. By the way, today I was popping the strings on both basses off-amp (without connecting them to amp/speaker) just to feel the difference. What I noticed was that I need to put less force on Yamaha (to pull the string less harder) to get a popping sound compared to on the fender. Could the higher action on Fender be the reason? By this test, I found out the reason or one of the reasons for the tone difference between my yamaha and fender when slapping could be something mechanical in addition to amp and electronic circuit i.e. action height or something like that, could I be concluding correctly?

[Majid]

35 minutes ago, Majid said:

Thanks. I will check the zoom b4 as well. Do you have any idea about the two preamps I mentioned above? 

Hi Horrorshowbass,

 

I checked zoom B1four. It’s a cool effect as it provides a lot of functions with a reasonable price. I have a NUX JTC looper with drum machine though. I mean I dont need those functions. When I was talking to Thomann and Gear4music customer service, they suggested me to go for a booster, micro amp or simple preamp as I already have the possibility to adjust the bass mid and treble on my combo. That’s why they proposed a simple one like MXR Micro Amp M133 or TC spark booster.

[Majid]

Hi Tdw,

I measured the action. On Fender it’s nearly 1 mm higher than on Yamaha. By the way, today I was popping the strings on both basses off-amp (without connecting them to amp/speaker) just to feel the difference. What I noticed was that I need to put less force on Yamaha (to pull the string less harder) to get a popping sound compared to on the fender. Could the higher action on Fender be the reason? By this test, I found out the reason or one of the reasons for the tone difference between my yamaha and fender when slapping could be something mechanical in addition to amp and electronic circuit i.e. action height or something like that, could I be concluding correctly?

[Tdw]

Hi Majid, the action could be affecting the sound of the pops although I would doubt that's the whole of the issue. Even so it sounds like you'd be better off lowering the action on the fender

[Majid]

29 minutes ago, Tdw said:

Hi Majid, the action could be affecting the sound of the pops although I would doubt that's the whole of the issue. Even so it sounds like you'd be better off lowering the action on the fender

Ok I will…..but when I’m saying that I had this feeling while I was playing them off-amp, do you still think that it’s something in addition to a high action?

[shoulderpet]

1 hour ago, Majid said:

Ok I will…..but when I’m saying that I had this feeling while I was playing them off-amp, do you still think that it’s something in addition to a high action?

The action may not be the whole issue, it is also likely to be active vs passive tone but a high action will kill your slap tone, with slap too high an action stops the notes from popping properly and makes them thud more, you will also find a high action if it is very high will kill your sustain, if I was after a tone more like an upright (double) bass one of the ways I would get that tone would be to raise the action very high.

 

Really you should aim for Fender guideline spec of 2.4mm action at the 17th fret on the E string and 2mm for the G but the ideal for slap would be 2mm at the 17th for the E and a little lower for the G, what I tend to do is start with 2.4mm and then if there is now buzz I lower it to 2.2mm and check for buzz and if there is none then I lower it to 2mm

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by shoulderpet

[Majid]

5 hours ago, shoulderpet said:

The action may not be the whole issue, it is also likely to be active vs passive tone but a high action will kill your slap tone, with slap too high an action stops the notes from popping properly and makes them thud more, you will also find a high action if it is very high will kill your sustain, if I was after a tone more like an upright (double) bass one of the ways I would get that tone would be to raise the action very high.

 

Really you should aim for Fender guideline spec of 2.4mm action at the 17th fret on the E string and 2mm for the G but the ideal for slap would be 2mm at the 17th for the E and a little lower for the G, what I tend to do is start with 2.4mm and then if there is now buzz I lower it to 2.2mm and check for buzz and if there is none then I lower it to 2mm

 

Thanks for your explanation Shoulderpet.

[Tdw]

9 hours ago, Majid said:

Ok I will…..but when I’m saying that I had this feeling while I was playing them off-amp, do you still think that it’s something in addition to a high action?

I suspect its not just the action but the only way to really find out is to lower the action and see what changes. It may be just that you prefer the slap sound if the yamaha to the fender. You could try backing off the volume on the front pickup to maybe 50 -80 percent. To be honest I still suspect your speaker may be holding you back a bit,  maybe the yamaha has more output at a frequency around the highest point of your speakers output and is less compromised by the lack of a hf speaker.

  Sometimes we presume that something more expensive or famous (like a fender ) will be better for us than what we have (your yamaha) and that's not necessarily true.

My advice would be

1 change the action on the fender

2 try the fender with the  front pickup rolled down

3 try your basses through some kind of full range system ( a freinds tweetered cab, P.A system, hi fi  or similar) to make sure it's not limited by the current speaker system. 

If after this you still prefer the yamaha then you probably just prefer the yamaha.

[LeftyJ]

This has been a very interesting thread so far, and I'm really curious how it will unfold.

The issue at hand ("Help, my [Bass X] won't sound like a [Bass X]") is not an uncommon one, and I have experienced it with both guitars and basses alike with some of my instruments. Less than two weeks ago I picked up a used Ibanez guitar of which I've had 3 before, and I thought my latest one sounded much darker and woolier than I remembered. That is, until I gave it a proper setup! I lowered the action and checked pickup height (without changing the strings), and hey presto: it brightened up massively. 

 

@Tdw's and @shoulderpet's tips are very valid and useful ones, and I too would start there 

Edited February 11, 2022 by LeftyJ

[Majid]

Thanks Tdw for your reply and proposed options/solutions. For your information, I boosted treble even more and added more high mid + cut down low mid on my combo then got closer to the tone I was looking for. I ordered a booster preamp online and now waiting for it. Next step is to lower the action. To clarify something here, I must say that I definitley like the fender tone. Although I talked about the comparison between my yamaha and fender but my main aim is to get a tone similat to what I have heard from other fenders. That’s what I like and try to obtain through my fender. I said my Yamaha sounds clearer but it is not my ideal tone. My expectation was higher on my fender cause I know what a fender should sound like.

[Majid]

14 hours ago, Tdw said:

I suspect its not just the action but the only way to really find out is to lower the action and see what changes. It may be just that you prefer the slap sound if the yamaha to the fender. You could try backing off the volume on the front pickup to maybe 50 -80 percent. To be honest I still suspect your speaker may be holding you back a bit,  maybe the yamaha has more output at a frequency around the highest point of your speakers output and is less compromised by the lack of a hf speaker.

  Sometimes we presume that something more expensive or famous (like a fender ) will be better for us than what we have (your yamaha) and that's not necessarily true.

My advice would be

1 change the action on the fender

2 try the fender with the  front pickup rolled down

3 try your basses through some kind of full range system ( a freinds tweetered cab, P.A system, hi fi  or similar) to make sure it's not limited by the current speaker system. 

If after this you still prefer the yamaha then you probably just prefer the yamaha.

This is an example of what tone I like to get from my fender

[Tdw]

I've listened to the clip and it's a good sound.

One thing I'd like to add is that when you are playing  the bass yourself you'll hear the physical sound of the bass being hit because you're really close to it when you hear someone else playing it or a recording these sounds are much quieter or non existent making the sound smoother. I'd say the clip has compression on it and possibly other post production too. Also there is a drum pattern so you're hearing a mix (although a pretty simple one).

[Majid]

On 12/02/2022 at 14:39, Tdw said:

I've listened to the clip and it's a good sound.

One thing I'd like to add is that when you are playing  the bass yourself you'll hear the physical sound of the bass being hit because you're really close to it when you hear someone else playing it or a recording these sounds are much quieter or non existent making the sound smoother. I'd say the clip has compression on it and possibly other post production too. Also there is a drum pattern so you're hearing a mix (although a pretty simple one).

I agree with you Tdw. I should admit that there are several things involved behind the scene than I don’t see when watching a video or listening to a track.

By the way, I lowered the action and also adjusted the truss rod, I should say that now I’m feeling a huge difference on both playability and the tone. It’s much easier to pop the strings now and actially the tone is closer to what Iike thanks a lot to you and to others who helped me with the valid comments. Now I’m looking forward to receiving my preamp and see how it can have an impact on the tone further.

[Majid]

I should also say that I noticed that I like a tone with a bit of fret buzz (It might sound funny or weird though but I really do). For this reason lowering the action gave a very good feeling to my tone in my ears. But I don't know to what extend a fret buzz can be considered as normal. Look at this video around (time 2:43 to 3:08):

What do you think about this tone? and is his action considered as super low? 

 

[shoulderpet]

3 hours ago, Majid said:

I should also say that I noticed that I like a tone with a bit of fret buzz (It might sound funny or weird though but I really do). For this reason lowering the action gave a very good feeling to my tone in my ears. But I don't know to what extend a fret buzz can be considered as normal. Look at this video around (time 2:43 to 3:08):

What do you think about this tone? and is his action considered as super low? 

 

A bit of fret buzz can be a good thing, helps the bass cut through

 

Take a listen to this isolated bass track of Red hot chilli peppers Blood sugar sex magic album, the isolated track doesn't sound great but on the album that bees in a tin can buzziness is the special sauce that makes the bass sound great on the albums mix

[Majid]

1 hour ago, shoulderpet said:

A bit of fret buzz can be a good thing, helps the bass cut through

 

Take a listen to this isolated bass track of Red hot chilli peppers Blood sugar sex magic album, the isolated track doesn't sound great but on the album that bees in a tin can buzziness is the special sauce that makes the bass sound great on the albums mix

Hi Shoulderpet,

Did you attach any track for me to listen? I can’t find any…..

[Vanheusen77]

Use the setup specs from Fender as a starting point: https://support.fender.com/en-us/knowledgebase/article/KA-01903

 

Make sure the truss rod is adjusted properly, set the string height to the specs and then experiment with raising and lowering from there. Like earlier mentioned, a little buzz is not a problem and sometimes part of a sound as long at it is even across notes. Also remember that the buzz you hear acoustically is almost inaudible through an amp. So adjust while playing through an amp. There is also the possibility that you simply like the Yamaha better, they sound quite different.

[shoulderpet]

10 hours ago, Majid said:

Hi Shoulderpet,

Did you attach any track for me to listen? I can’t find any…..

Apologies, I did mean to, this is the track

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/hgjXP_eS2R4

Edited February 14, 2022 by shoulderpet

[Majid]

1 hour ago, shoulderpet said:

Apologies, I did mean to, this is the track

[YouTube]https://youtu.be/hgjXP_eS2R4

Many thanks Shoulderpet.

[Tdw]

21 hours ago, Majid said:

I should also say that I noticed that I like a tone with a bit of fret buzz (It might sound funny or weird though but I really do). For this reason lowering the action gave a very good feeling to my tone in my ears. But I don't know to what extend a fret buzz can be considered as normal. Look at this video around (time 2:43 to 3:08):

What do you think about this tone? and is his action considered as super low? 

 

I'd say hes got the action set pretty low but not extreme. I would imagine the fret noise would be pretty mild/not noticable in a full band context.  Probably a good comprimise between slap and fingerstyle.