Pickups

[Rayman]

I've put a similar post in technical, but I thought I'd ask a more general question.....

 

Does it really make a difference to your tone when it comes to the build quality of the pickups?

 

I'm restoring an old P bass. I'm going for an old school vibe,  KiOgon loom, tapewounds, but I'm umming and ahhing about whether to use the original 80s budget pickup or replace it with something better quality. Is a pickup just a bunch of magnets and wires at the end of the day? Do thin wires matter, or do thicker cloth wires sound better? 

 

I don't want a bright, high output tone, I want old school. Surely the original pickups will be fine with a decent loom?

 

I'm asking because I really don't know in terms of a pickups performance. 

[bigthumb]

I was quite surprised with the difference between the stock US pickup on my '95 Precision and the Custom Shop '62 I replaced it with. Well worth the upgrade IMO if you want that old school vibe. 

[Doctor J]

Pickups are the most important part of the sound of a bass. Whatever sound you're looking for, the pickup will play a bigger role, more than anything else. How a pickup is made and what it is made of is very important to the sound which comes out of the instrument. Modern mass-produced budget pickups are not the same as what made the sound you're chasing.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Doctor J

[Boodang]

The 2 things that will make the biggest difference to your tone on a bass guitar; strings and pickups. 

 

Bung in your old pickup, identify what you don't like about it, then look for a pickup that solves those issues. There's some good articles on the Seymour Duncan site that detail the elements of a pickup build and it's effect on tone that can help you with this.

[shoulderpet]

3 hours ago, Rayman said:

I've put a similar post in technical, but I thought I'd ask a more general question.....

 

Does it really make a difference to your tone when it comes to the build quality of the pickups?

 

I'm restoring an old P bass. I'm going for an old school vibe,  KiOgon loom, tapewounds, but I'm umming and ahhing about whether to use the original 80s budget pickup or replace it with something better quality. Is a pickup just a bunch of magnets and wires at the end of the day? Do thin wires matter, or do thicker cloth wires sound better? 

 

I don't want a bright, high output tone, I want old school. Surely the original pickups will be fine with a decent loom?

 

I'm asking because I really don't know in terms of a pickups performance. 

Cloth wires make absolutely no difference it is purely an aesthetic, the only wires that matter are the wires that are wrapped around the actual pickup coils, with the wires that are wrapped around the pickup coils there is all sorts of things going on that determine the tone.

I suspect the pickups you already have will be fine, if not Toneriders seem to be recommended a lot for this type of tone, Wilkinson (the Alnico ones) are also very good inexpensive pickups

[Paul S]

If you have a ki0gon loom with its screw terminal connectors you can use the bass as a test bed really easily for different types of pickups.  It takes just a few minutes to do this.  You can pick them up secondhand cheaply, usually, and this gives you the opportunity to try the various ones until you find what you like.  Those you don't care for can be moved on for very little/no loss.  By way of a starter maybe find a song that has the type of P bass tone you like and ask on here which pickup is likely to give you that tone.

[Rayman]

That's my opinion too. My belief is that expensive vs cheap, in terms of the pickups, doesn't mean better vs worse, just different in terms of tone.

 

I saw a Sunn Mustang, like this one, on Bass The World, and the tone was lovely albeit on a defretted bass.

 

I don't need high output, I don't need a massive range in tone, so I reckon the original pickup will be fine. I'm certainly not going to drop a pickup that's worth more than the bass into it. If I'm unimpressed once it's finished, I'll drop a Tonerider into it.

[Geek99]

Keep your eye on eBay - I scored a pup from a “classic 50s “ p bass model for £8 

[Rich]

I had cheapáss J pickups in my similarly cheapáss ska bass, they were errrrrrm okaaay I suppose... found I was using only the neck one, then remembered that I had a hot Schaller J neck one in the spares box so I fitted that. It was like the difference between very chalky chalk and extremely cheesy cheese. You would never have dreamed that they were both basically magnets with bits of wire wrapped round them. And I don't just mean in terms of loudness (the stock one was 6-7K, the Schaller is 13), the tone was different too. The stock one sounded like a normal J, but the Schaller is more like a slightly compressed P but really really aggressive. Not necessarily better but different. Perfect for my needs. So my longwinded answer to the OP is hell yes it makes a difference.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Rich

[Rich]

7 minutes ago, Rayman said:

'm certainly not going to drop a pickup that's worth more than the bass into it.

 

I would, if it makes the right sound (see above re: my Schaller). If you get one, drop it in and then decide against it, or change it further down the line, you can sell it on probably for what you paid for it (assuming you get it used).

[Rayman]

8 minutes ago, Rich said:

 It was like the difference between very chalky chalk and extremely cheesy cheese. 

I might get lucky with this one, it might very chalky cheese.

[SteveK]

"KiOgon loom" sounds like something out of Star Trek to me👽

 

I've had (and still have) many high-end basses, acquired over many years.

By far, my favourite sounding bass is my '73 Fender P. There is just something fabulous about those (relatively) cheap, lo-fi, passive pickups.

If you go for "better quality", you'll be moving further away from the "old school vibe".

[Rayman]

Exactly my thoughts 

 

The old pickup has been cleaned, and is going back in. If I don't like it, it's easy to change.

 

My favourite pickups ever were Duncan designed  PJs in a Schecter Model T. Cheap, but fabulous. 

[Bigguy2017]

For 'vintage' P Bass sounds the Fender Custom Shop '62 P Bass Pickup is the nuts.

Better than the stock PUP in my Mex P Bass...

 

Not the cheapest, but the best for 'classic' 60s Precision tone...

 

Fender Custom Shop 62 P-Bass Pickup – Thomann UK 

https://www.thomann.de/gb/fender_custom_shop_62_p_bass_pickup.htm

[BigRedX]

The one time I changed the pickups on a bass I owned, it made absolutely no detectable difference to the sound of the bass.

[Bassfinger]

As ever, the eternal question - what does the OP define as "quality"?

[shoulderpet]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

The one time I changed the pickups on a bass I owned, it made absolutely no detectable difference to the sound of the bass.

I have to admit, unless you get a pickup that is radically different like something super hot then most of them are pretty similar, the Seymour Duncan SPB-2 is noticeably different from most P pickups.  I also think that the strings you use will bring out the character of the pickup, if you use flats then there is less harmonic content so changing the pickup will affect the tone a lot less than if you are using rounds. 

[Rayman]

38 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

As ever, the eternal question - what does the OP define as "quality"?

Well that's the question 

 

Is the tone from an 80s Eastern made pickup with thin wires (does that matter? I don't think it does) going to be markedly improved by a more expensive pickup, costing 4 times as much, say, a Fender US pickup. I guess quality means "better" magnets, plastic, wires etc.

[BigRedX]

1 minute ago, Rayman said:

Well that's the question 

 

Is the tone from an 80s Eastern made pickup with thin wires (does that matter? I don't think it does) going to be markedly improved by a more expensive pickup, costing 4 times as much, say, a Fender US pickup. I guess quality means "better" magnets, plastic, wires etc.

 

Firstly do any of those things actually make a noticeable difference?

 

Secondly you have to remember that technically better from a electronic, mechanical or magnetic PoV does not automatically equal a better sound (which is subjective any way). If it did valves would have disappeared from audio circuits a long time ago. Scatter winding which is one of the buzz-words when it comes to pickups is probably less good in terms of pure physics than coils wound in a more regular manner.

 

Who's to say what is "better"?

[Boodang]

https://seymourduncan.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/categories/360002801434

 

Pickups 101

[Rayman]

1 hour ago, BigRedX said:

 

Firstly do any of those things actually make a noticeable difference?

 

Secondly you have to remember that technically better from a electronic, mechanical or magnetic PoV does not automatically equal a better sound (which is subjective any way). If it did valves would have disappeared from audio circuits a long time ago. Scatter winding which is one of the buzz-words when it comes to pickups is probably less good in terms of pure physics than coils wound in a more regular manner.

 

Who's to say what is "better"?

I don't think there is better, just different. Which kind of answers the original question doesn't it?

 

It's all in the ears of the player, which kind of makes the OP null and void. 

 

Very interesting to read all the input,  thanks all.

[Cato]

I put a set of Aguilar 70s jazz pick ups into into a VM70s Squire Jazz.

 

I didn't do before and after clips but I definitely didn't notice a radical difference once the new pickups were installed.

 

I have wondered if they were too close in spec to the original Duncan designed Squier pickups in what was after all supposed to be 70s style Jazz.

[Boodang]

30 minutes ago, Cato said:

I put a set of Aguilar 70s jazz pick ups into into a VM70s Squire Jazz.

 

I didn't do before and after clips but I definitely didn't notice a radical difference once the new pickups were installed.

 

I have wondered if they were too close in spec to the original Duncan designed Squier pickups in what was after all supposed to be 70s style Jazz.

Replaced my standard pups in my Squier VM jazz for some custom Creamery jobs. Alnico2 for the bridge for more mid emphasis and alnico5 for the neck for more punch and bass.... they're awesome.

They're not the cheapest but mostly because they're a one off custom and there's no economy of scale. Thing I liked about getting them was that I had a chat with the guy who makes them to discuss what I was after tone wise. There might be standard pups that would do the job but this way I could get them tailored to my tastes and it was an interesting process.

[Lozz196]

Tonerider pickups are worth a punt, they have a similar sound to the Fender Custom Shop 62s, but aren’t as expensive. A good way to try out the vintage sound imo.

[Bassfinger]

7 hours ago, Rayman said:

Well that's the question 

 

Is the tone from an 80s Eastern made pickup with thin wires (does that matter? I don't think it does) going to be markedly improved by a more expensive pickup, costing 4 times as much, say, a Fender US pickup. I guess quality means "better" magnets, plastic, wires etc.

Well, the plastic components have no bearing on the sound.

 

Wire differs only in gauge, not quality.

 

Magnets differ only in the strength of the field the produce, and one chooses that which is appropriate to the sound they seek.

 

So if thats the measure, then the answer to the original question is "no".