Seymour Duncan Weather Report pups

[Boodang]

4 hours ago, Twincam said:

Good, let us know how they sound! 

Once the pups catch up with me and my heavy baggage in my new location I'll install them in my Squier jazz fretless with the resin fingerboard and post some clips. 

In the mean time I'm commissioning a jazz from my local luthier specially for the pickups. Not quite period correct for the Jaco thing but I quite fancy a '61 spec neck with a slab board and 1 7/16" nut.... and of course an epoxy finish on the board.

[BassBod]

The epoxy fingerboard and fresh round wound strings are the key…most repro jazz pickups will do a fine job.  I had one of the Antiquity bridge pickups years ago, and it was exactly what it designed to be, but that included the single coil hum and pretty bad microphonics!  
 

My favourite is the DiMarzio Model J..a slightly darker sounding humbucker.  

[Hellzero]

On 15/02/2022 at 21:01, Boodang said:

Once the pups catch up with me and my heavy baggage in my new location I'll install them in my Squier jazz fretless with the resin fingerboard and post some clips. 

In the mean time I'm commissioning a jazz from my local luthier specially for the pickups. Not quite period correct for the Jaco thing but I quite fancy a '61 spec neck with a slab board and 1 7/16" nut.... and of course an epoxy finish on the board.

 

If you can get some Brazilian rosewood for the fingerboard, it's another key factor to Jaco's tone (whatever some deaf people of this very parish might yell), alongside epoxy and stainless steel round wound Rotosound RS 66 LD strings as partially mentioned before and a very good bridge pickup, of course.

[Geek99]

45 minutes ago, Hellzero said:

 

If you can get some Brazilian rosewood for the fingerboard, it's another key factor to Jaco's tone (whatever some deaf people of this very parish might yell), alongside epoxy and stainless steel round wound Rotosound RS 66 LD strings as partially mentioned before and a very good bridge pickup, of course.

Really I thought it was all in the pickups … 🤔🍿😈

[Hellzero]

In fact, it's all in the way the pickups pick up the strings vibrations coming from the wood cancelling and amplifying at the same time these abovementioned vibrations that are more oscillations than vibrations as the string when picked up is oscillating at a certain frequency also generating complex harmonics, thus creating nods than can be seen with an oscilloscope.

[Boodang]

3 hours ago, Hellzero said:

 

If you can get some Brazilian rosewood for the fingerboard, it's another key factor to Jaco's tone (whatever some deaf people of this very parish might yell), alongside epoxy and stainless steel round wound Rotosound RS 66 LD strings as partially mentioned before and a very good bridge pickup, of course.

Brazilian rosewood might be a bit difficult to obtain these days, but it will be rosewood of some kind. And I hope, being as this whole project got started around the Weather Report pickups, that they'll be very good. 

[Geek99]

3 hours ago, Hellzero said:

In fact, it's all in the way the pickups pick up the strings vibrations coming from the wood cancelling and amplifying at the same time these abovementioned vibrations that are more oscillations than vibrations as the string when picked up is oscillating at a certain frequency also generating complex harmonics, thus creating nods than can be seen with an oscilloscope.

Oh no it isn’t !  ( in true pantomime style)

[Hellzero]

Wot ? You mean you're a ballerina in a Spandau ballet. True ?

[Boodang]

So, getting ahead of myself here but asked my local luthier about making a '61 spec neck and here's a body he can attach it to. So, '61 neck, Walnut/mahogany body, Weather Report pickups. 

[Boodang]

12 hours ago, BassBod said:

The epoxy fingerboard and fresh round wound strings are the key…most repro jazz pickups will do a fine job.  I had one of the Antiquity bridge pickups years ago, and it was exactly what it designed to be, but that included the single coil hum and pretty bad microphonics!  
 

My favourite is the DiMarzio Model J..a slightly darker sounding humbucker.  

The DiMarzio J's are good but I like single coils. And with the use of a serial/parallel switch on a jazz I can go from single coil to humbucker, so to a certain degree, best of both worlds. 

[Woodwind]

6 hours ago, Boodang said:

So, getting ahead of myself here but asked my local luthier about making a '61 spec neck and here's a body he can attach it to. So, '61 neck, Walnut/mahogany body, Weather Report pickups. 

 

Just read this whole thread.

If I were to be going to the bother of commissioning a bass with the intention of sounding like Jaco Pastorious, that is resolutely not the body I'd be attaching custom wound pickups and a carefully specified jazz neck to.

 

Aesthetics aside (I think it's horrible) you surely need as close to an alder fender jazz body as possible!?!?

The wood has to vibrate/dampen the resonances in the right way.

[Bassfinger]

16 hours ago, Hellzero said:

 

If you can get some Brazilian rosewood for the fingerboard, it's another key factor to Jaco's tone (whatever some deaf people of this very parish might yell)

I think what they yell for with such claims is evidence, which seems rarely to be forthcoming.  I'm a fence-sitter on that one, but still wouldn't mind seeing some actual science to support this sort of claim.

 

As for the pups, its wire wound round a bobbin with some magnets thrown in. Unless SD have been able to get their hands of one of Jaco's old pickups there's not much likelihood of them being any closer an approximation than anyone elses same gauge wire wrapped around a bobbin of near identical dimensions. It seems a bit of a cynical marketing tactic as much as anything else, and SD do have a lot of form for that.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Bassfinger
Started a fight with someone a lot harder than me

[Doctor J]

Given Jaco's strings never actually made contact with the wood of the instrument at any point, surely the type of epoxy used, how thickly it was applied and the percentage of resin to hardener is what's really important here? 
 

Jokes aside, in the video with Jerry Jemmott, Jaco sounds like Jaco playing a J bass with a fretted all-maple Precision neck. How you play is going to get you closer to the Jaco sound than any tonewood witchcraft.

[Hellzero]

@Bassfinger Here's some real science for those naysayers pretending wood doesn't matter, worth reading it and, for some, admitting that it's not because they don't hear any difference that there's none. Also maybe showing their hearing test could help too...

 

Archives of Acoustics.2021.138150.pdf

[Boodang]

5 hours ago, Woodwind said:

 

Just read this whole thread.

If I were to be going to the bother of commissioning a bass with the intention of sounding like Jaco Pastorious, that is resolutely not the body I'd be attaching custom wound pickups and a carefully specified jazz neck to.

 

Aesthetics aside (I think it's horrible) you surely need as close to an alder fender jazz body as possible!?!?

The wood has to vibrate/dampen the resonances in the right way.

I totally agree! To a certain extent the project is going a bit off piste with this body but I like it so much I have to have it. Having said that talking over neck options for this body and i can see it going in a different direction, so I think there might be two basses coming out of all this!

[Boodang]

5 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

I think what they yell for with such claims is evidence, which seems rarely to be forthcoming.  I'm a fence-sitter on that one, but still wouldn't mind seeing some actual science to support this sort of claim.

 

As for the pups, its wire wound round a bobbin with some magnets thrown in. Unless SD have been able to get their hands of one of Jaco's old pickups there's not much likelihood of them being any closer an approximation than anyone elses same gauge wire wrapped around a bobbin of near identical dimensions. It seems a bit of a cynical marketing tactic as much as anything else, and SD do have a lot of form for that.

I'm sure there's a fair amount of cynical marketing tactics by SD with these pickups but on this occasion they've reeled me in hook line and sinker and I'm prepared to suspend my cynicism and be in complete fantasy land.... I will believe in the power of Jaco pickups!

[Boodang]

5 hours ago, Doctor J said:

Given Jaco's strings never actually made contact with the wood of the instrument at any point, surely the type of epoxy used, how thickly it was applied and the percentage of resin to hardener is what's really important here? 
 

Jokes aside, in the video with Jerry Jemmott, Jaco sounds like Jaco playing a J bass with a fretted all-maple Precision neck. How you play is going to get you closer to the Jaco sound than any tonewood witchcraft.

Yep, the epoxy is important and the neck is being made with that in mind.

As for playing like Jaco... well that's never going to happen for me. If the resulting bass every produces that Jaco sound it'll be because someone else is playing it!

And for those wondering why the hell I want a Jaco style bass when I don't want to/can't play like Jaco, it's purely because I like jazz basses and inspired by the philosophy/marketing b*llocks of SD I feel like putting together a bass to match the pickups.

What's more interesting is why I feel 'connected', if that's the right word  to these pickups given that Jaco is not a great influence on my playing. But there's something about Jacos life and approach to music that resonates and despite anything else has always drawn me to him. Not sure what it is, maybe it's just the immense talent and uniqueness coupled with his tragic story. And watching the 'lost tapes' documentary recently is responsible for me getting these pickups and kicking off the project.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Boodang

[Boodang]

6 hours ago, Woodwind said:

 

Just read this whole thread.

If I were to be going to the bother of commissioning a bass with the intention of sounding like Jaco Pastorious, that is resolutely not the body I'd be attaching custom wound pickups and a carefully specified jazz neck to.

 

Aesthetics aside (I think it's horrible) you surely need as close to an alder fender jazz body as possible!?!?

The wood has to vibrate/dampen the resonances in the right way.

As I said, I agree with you about the alder wood and I think this body is going to be project B. 

But out of interest, I can understand this particular body not being someone's cup of tea but nice woods, ergonic shape.... horrible?! 

[BassBod]

From my various J bass experiments over the years..the very best feel / sound I’ve found was from a Bravewood neck, made with very dense maple, and a thick slab of very dark rosewood.  It felt great to play, but also gave a distinct bark to the overall sound.  It possibly had some reinforcement rods as well, as it was a pain to set up, but for sound, it was fantastic.  I remember a Jaco interview where he said the main reason for sticking with his two old jazzes was “the punch” they had in the mid range…I think this was probably it.  That slab of dense rosewood?

[Hellzero]

19 hours ago, Boodang said:

Brazilian rosewood might be a bit difficult to obtain these days, but it will be rosewood of some kind. And I hope, being as this whole project got started around the Weather Report pickups, that they'll be very good. 

Then you can use Cocobolo (Dalbergia Retusa) or Amazonian rosewood (Dalbergia Spruceana) which are both very very very close sound wise to the Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia Nigra). Pau Ferro (Machaerium Scleroxylon) which is not a rosewood at all is also very close sound wise, but much clearer, and is used on both Fender Jaco Pastorius models.

[Woodwind]

2 hours ago, Boodang said:

As I said, I agree with you about the alder wood and I think this body is going to be project B. 

But out of interest, I can understand this particular body not being someone's cup of tea but nice woods, ergonic shape.... horrible?! 

Sorry, too strong a word on my part. Apologies. I hadn't had enough coffee when I wrote it and I just couldn't shake the image of a fender shape headstock and 4 in a row tuners on that body, which is where the "horrible" came from.

 

A more diminutive headstock, 2over 2 or maybe 3 over 1 would look good with that organic form.

[Boodang]

12 minutes ago, Woodwind said:

A more diminutive headstock, 2over 2 or maybe 3 over 1 would look good with that organic form.

Ah, pre-caffeination!

Funny you should mention that as project B has taken on a life of its own already and we've settled on a 2 over 2 headstock with mahogany/ maple laminated neck and extended rosewood board that also doubles as a finger ramp. Very off piste to where this all started!

[Bassfinger]

6 hours ago, Hellzero said:

@Bassfinger Here's some real science for those naysayers pretending wood doesn't matter, worth reading it and, for some, admitting that it's not because they don't hear any difference that there's none. Also maybe showing their hearing test could help too...

 

Archives of Acoustics.2021.138150.pdf 9.53 MB · 3 downloads

As a scientist myself, although not in the field of acoustics, I can pick holes in their scientific method big enough to walk through. Its a good thing they're not testing vaccines!

 

At least give us something credible, with stringent method and reproducible results, and peer reviewed, just the same as any other piece of science we are expected to believe.  Then people can legitimately have some faith in it.

[Twincam]

Woods in my experience, opinion do matter. And I think the shape, size of the body matter just as much and too a lesser extent the headstock. In tone and in response, resonance. 

 

The only thing I would suggest doesn't matter for tone on a bass is the control knobs, strap buttons and the tuners. Oh and pick guard. 

 

Now after jaco himself the biggest affect on his sound was probably his strings. 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Twincam

[Boodang]

42 minutes ago, Twincam said:

Woods in my experience, opinion do matter. And I think the shape, size of the body matter just as much and too a lesser extent the headstock. In tone and in response, resonance. 

 

The only thing I would suggest doesn't matter for tone on a bass is the control knobs, strap buttons and the tuners. Oh and pick guard. 

 

Now after jaco himself the biggest affect on his sound was probably his strings. 

For control knobs it's the dual stacked volume/tone which I prefer to vol/vol/tone, with a series/parallel switch for added versatility. And rotosounds obviously. As for pickguard, I'm afraid I like tortoiseshell.