Why are tabs always wrong?

[SteveXFR]

14 minutes ago, peteb said:

But that is because you can read notation. Not everybody can. 

 

 

I can't. As someone educated in the sciences and experienced with crap notation systems, I think music notation is by far the worst.

I also think it's about time music went metric.

[Owen]

I was wondering how many post in I would have to go before the TAB/Notation thing happened

 

 

[MacDaddy]

i remember reading a John Lennon interview, in which he said many of The Beatles transcriptions were wrong because they had been done by "proper musicians". Things like playing a minor 3rd over a major chord (to be a bit bluesy) were seen as errors and 'corrected'. 

[cetera]

Calling Jeff Berlin! 🤣😂

[ambient]

If I had to learn a bass line for a gig, and I had to do it quickly, the first thing I would do is find out what the chords are.
 

The bass line will pretty much come from that. 

 

I’d use them along with a recording of the song,

 

You’d still need to do sit down with a recording with the Tablature, due to the lack of rhythmic information.

 

I can see its use though if players are starting out and want to get playing.

[PaulWarning]

There's usually a reasonably accurate tab of what I want to learn, and some rubbish ones, but they do get me in the ball park, I'm rubbish at starting out learning a song by ear but once I've learnt the basic chord structure I can usually sort it out.

There's also a piece of software that attempts to show the chords and the bass line called Digital Music Mentor (never found an alternative that shows the bass line), very old but still available, it's not fool proof by any means but it does get you on the right track

[neepheid]

I find the "official" tabs on Ultimate Guitar to be pretty good on the whole (I think you have to subscribe to get them) - but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them all the time.  There have been times when I've disagreed with the suggested fingering (thinks to myself - why did you play that there?) so I've done it the way that makes sense to me - it's just an interpretation after all.

[Woodinblack]

58 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

I asked this after looking up a tab for Thunderkiss 65 because I was having difficulty working out the bass behind the guitar solo, there was something a bit funky going on.

 

Is this not right? He is normally pretty good

 

[Downunderwonder]

36 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

I can't. As someone educated in the sciences and experienced with crap notation systems, I think music notation is by far the worst.

I also think it's about time music went metric.

Math Rock for you then.

 

Once you get your head around notation you see that there is a whole lot of information in the forms of note groups and the incidentals to the 'key'. Scanning ahead as you play allows it to be interpreted both by the ear and the brain and finger memory and the sense of time all at once.

 

You think bass is hard to read, try drumming. A drummer told me about being in a local pickup band for a touring bigshot popstar. He played his own fill and she turned around and told him to get his kaka together and play the dots. So he did.

[SteveXFR]

18 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Is this not right? He is normally pretty good

 

 

That's spot on

[Rich]

10 hours ago, Bassfinger said:

Try as I might I just can't get my head round Tab, so I stick to a mix of sheet music, listening to the somg, and improvising.

Similar here, with the ska band anyway. I listen to it, play along with it, then write my part out for rehearsal & practice. Sometimes if there's a tricky part that I can't quite make out, I'll check out a few tabs. And yes, most of them turn out to be wrong in one way or another. Some are total works of fiction.

 

With the soul band, our MD does all the arrangements so we all get sheet music for our parts. He knows I'm not a reader, so bless 'im he puts all the note names along the stop, like this. I can follow a chart quite well now even if I can't tell what the actual notes are.

 

Name that tune  

[peteb]

20 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

There's usually a reasonably accurate tab of what I want to learn, and some rubbish ones, but they do get me in the ball park, I'm rubbish at starting out learning a song by ear but once I've learnt the basic chord structure I can usually sort it out.

 

 

The real trouble with tabs is that they don't encourage you to develop your ear, especially when you are starting out. The same issue can apply with notation, but at least you need to develop some knowledge of theory to learn to read notation. It is not enough to have something that just shows you where to put your fingers to be able to play something when you start out, you need to learn why that works as well, otherwise you are never going to learn how to actually play.  

 

18 minutes ago, neepheid said:

There have been times when I've disagreed with the suggested fingering (thinks to myself - why did you play that there?) so I've done it the way that makes sense to me - it's just an interpretation after all.

 

You need to be able to see the music behind the tab and to know that the second fret on the 'A' string is a B, but could be payed as the seventh fret on the 'E' string (or the ninth fret if 'E' string is tuned down a step). 

 

[fretmeister]

Even official books are wrong.

 

I'm beginning to wonder if the tab is created by a computer from the trad notation.

 

Many years ago I received the official Muse book as a gift. The notation of Hysteria was correct, and the notes on the tab were correct, but instead of the tab showing the accurate way to play that riff - pedalling the open strings - the tab showed it being played across the strings in a way that made it twice as hard. It was almost like software had defaulted to always moving across the fretboard rather than up it when a higher note was needed.

[BigRedX]

If you can hear the part well enough to be able to work out the tab is wrong then you should be able to work out the right thing just by listening.

 

If you still can't get it exactly, then it probably doesn't matter. Play something that fits with the other instruments and no-one except the bassist who played to part on the original recording will know.

 

And is @Rich has demonstrated notation is easy to follow. You don't need to be able to sight read if you are going to learn the parts, so take your time and work it out one note at a time.

Edited March 1, 2022 by BigRedX

[Nail Soup]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

I also think it's about time music went metric.

Yep... 10 beats to the bar. 10 notes in an octave (or dectave as it will be known after decimalisation)

[fretmeister]

 

[PaulWarning]

another invaluable free tool is Audacity, slow the song right down and move it up an octave (or even 2) makes the the most buried in the mix bass line stand out.

I also find the bass lessons on YouTube are more accurate than tabs

Edited March 1, 2022 by PaulWarning

[Rich]

10 minutes ago, Nail Soup said:

Yep... 10 beats to the bar. 10 notes in an octave (or dectave as it will be known after decimalisation)

 

Already done -- in Red Dwarf, Holly invented 'Hol Rock', where he decimalised music (having ten notes instead of eight—although he admits that this would result in "piano keyboards being the width of a zebra crossing, and women being banned from playing the cello"). His new scale went "Doh Re Mi Fa Soh La Woh Boh Ti Doh".

[neepheid]

23 minutes ago, peteb said:

You need to be able to see the music behind the tab and to know that the second fret on the 'A' string is a B, but could be payed as the seventh fret on the 'E' string (or the ninth fret if 'E' string is tuned down a step). 

 

 

I know what note is at which fret on which string already.  I've already made that decision based upon my style and how I play the bass.  I don't need to see the music behind the tab to make that call.

 

I feel really talked down to right now.  You NEED to do this, you NEED to do that.  Was that your intention?  You have no idea to what degree I suck at playing bass, and the degree to which I suck at playing bass has no bearing whatsoever on how utterly amazing you are so thanks for the pep talk, but I'm happy to wallow, roll around and generally indulge in the mud of my mediocrity and just have some fun.

[Rich]

Maybe it's just my interpretation, but I was of the impression that pete's "you" was very much non-specific. I don't think he meant you personally. 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Nail Soup said:

Yep... 10 beats to the bar. 10 notes in an octave (or dectave as it will be known after decimalisation)

 

Its when you have to play those 100mBeats notes that it gets hard

[ambient]

It’s only recently that I discovered people who are dyslexic can also have problems with reading music.

 

A lot of people are dyslexic to some degree or an other without knowing it. Which might explain why some people struggle with learning to read music.

[neepheid]

14 minutes ago, Rich said:

Maybe it's just my interpretation, but I was of the impression that pete's "you" was very much non-specific. I don't think he meant you personally. 

 

I appreciate the nebulous nature of "you" to mean "one".  Maybe it's just me but when I quote someone and use "you" in the text directly below it, I'm directing my response at the person I'm quoting.  If I want to make a generic point, I'll word it in such a way as to make it clear that it's a generic, non-specific point.

 

I wasn't asking for a lesson and I really didn't think I sounded like a total n00b when I wrote my initial post.  That's my point and that's why my nose is a wee bit out of joint.

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Rich said:

...

Name that tune  

 

Sorry. I can play it, but it's ringing no bells, so I'm guessing that it's not Sibelius or Grieg. Handel seems unlikely, too. A bit more modern, maybe..? David Bowie..? No..? OK, I'm stumped. 

[peteb]

25 minutes ago, Rich said:

Maybe it's just my interpretation, but I was of the impression that pete's "you" was very much non-specific. I don't think he meant you personally. 

 

No, of course not - I have no idea what level he plays at and I don't particularly care. I was using his post to illustrate a point I would make advising someone just picking up a bass and thinking that they could learn to play just by looking at tabs.