Vintage 70's bass guitar - worth getting it fixed?

[dajaphonics]

I have this 70's shortscale Epiphone that I've had kicking around for a few years. I've invested some money in new pickups, strings, and a bridge. However, I can't get the bass's intonation correct. As you play up the neck, the notes generally get to be too sharp. I don't know if this is something that can be fixed via filing down frets but I'm at the point where I'm wondering is it worth trying to get this bass to 100%. The strings also smack the fret board if I play just slightly hard. Also there is plenty of fret buzzing when you get up the neck. Additionally, the low E string is very quiet compared to the rest of the strings. I basically just need it for recording tracks at home. I'm not playing gigs with it.  I'm just now wondering if I should part with this and go for a more modern Squier shortscale bass. 

 

Anyway, what I like about the bass. It looks cool. That's about it at this point. The thing is just frustrating me at this point. I've played around with broken old synths and old guitars, I kind of just want something that works like it should at this point. I'm not sure how much it would cost to get this bass to a place where I'd be happy or if that's even possible. Either taking this as just a vent of any advice from the masses would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Rich]

First off... Can we see pics of the bass plz?

[dajaphonics]

Thar it be

 

Edited March 5, 2022 by dajaphonics

[Maude]

The action looks to be very low, which would give you your fret buzz and strings hitting the fretboard, could also be the cause of your weak E string as it might be too close to the pickup and the magnet could be 'grabbing' the string. 

From your pictures I can't see why a proper set up couldn't fix most/all the problems. 

Don't go filing frets down to change intonation, it won't change anything. 

 

How confident/competent are you in doing a set up if guided through the steps? Each adjustment should be done in an order or you just end up chasing problems round in circles. 

[Grahambythesea]

I was reading about these on Fly Guitars only yesterday. I’d say worth getting fixed and collectible. Where are you based, perhaps there is member on here who’d be happy to help, I would if you’re in the Deep South.

[dajaphonics]

I've never done a setup so I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10 for confidence I'd say firmly a 3.

 

The guy who installed the bridge said he adjusted the neck quite a bit so it may be a little bowed. He was just some random guy who claimed to know what he was doing. I'm not sure if he did.

 

I'm in Pittsburgh, PA.

[Downunderwonder]

Check the scale length. From the sound of it the bridge is too close to the neck. Measure the nut to 12th fret. Should be same again to the bridge.

[Bigguy2017]

Saddles are high and action is low, so a neck shim is most likely needed.

First check neck straightness and relief.

[Maude]

11 hours ago, Downunderwonder said:

Check the scale length. From the sound of it the bridge is too close to the neck. Measure the nut to 12th fret. Should be same again to the bridge.

 

Ideally the measurement should be to the G string saddle on nearly its minimum adjustment (ie towards the neck), nearly as it will allow a little room for error. The other strings will need longer string runs to intonate properly. 

 

@dajaphonics take a look down the neck and see if it looks straight, or has a concave or convex bow. If someone has been adjusting it but doesn't really know what they're doing then it might be as simple as loosening the trussrod to get some bow back in the neck, and give you some string relief.

The neck wants to be a little concaved at the front, as if the headstock is pulling forwards, this will allow your strings to oscillate freely. If it's already got some bow then, as mentioned before, it might need a neck shim to angle the neck forwards. 

No need to worry about measurements just yet. 

[OliverBlackman]

14 hours ago, dajaphonics said:

I've never done a setup so I'd say on a scale of 1 to 10 for confidence I'd say firmly a 3.

 

The guy who installed the bridge said he adjusted the neck quite a bit so it may be a little bowed. He was just some random guy who claimed to know what he was doing. I'm not sure if he did.

 

I'm in Pittsburgh, PA.

I was going to suggest taking it to The Gallery but for the price of the travel you could get a very decent bass 😂

[Phil Starr]

Welcome to BassChat 

 

You might be asking in the wrong part of the forum. The real experts on this might well be stuck over in the build diaries where a number of luthiers hang out

 

There's not much you can't fix on a bass so long as bit's aren't physically broken or the neck is twisted. So start with a simple look down th length of the nec and see if there is any sign of twisting. A bend isn't alarming if it is slight. as the truss rod is there to adjust that.  I'd be suspicious of that bridge if it is a replacement. You can check if it is in the right position with a ruler first. the distance of the nut to the 12th fret and the bridge saddles to the 12th fret should be the same. The octave is halfway along the string so this has to be so whatever the instrument. If it isn't they've put the bridge on in the wrong place, though as you can see the bridge has allowances for slight adjustment. So if you've no twisting it isn't going to be expensive to fix and far from impossible to do yourself.

[skankdelvar]

22 hours ago, dajaphonics said:

As you play up the neck, the notes generally get to be too sharp.

 

That's an intonation issue. Normally you'd fix that by winding the bridge saddles backwards away from the nut. Let's have a look at the bridge:

 

 

Oh, look. The saddles are wound way back already and there's very little backwards travel left on the bottom E string.

 

The bridge is too far forward. To fix an intonation issue, the whole bridge assembly would need to be moved back so that the saddles have got some travel in either direction.

 

Frankly, I'd do this before I tried adjusting the neck relief. If the board is too flat then you'll have to adjust it so that it's concave. Doing so will microscopically shorten the scale length. Even on a correctly placed bridge the saddles would have to be moved backwards to compensate. With bridge where it is now, I don't think you've got enough travel left in them to do so. 

 

Get the bridge sorted, check the relief and adjust if necessary. After adjusting the relief you may find the strings are now too high and you can lower the saddles accordingly. If they're still too low come back here and we can all have a crack at sorting it out.
 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by skankdelvar

[Bassassin]

That's an Epi ET280, from 1975-ish. These were made by Matsumoku and will be a pretty high-qualty build for what was a low/midrange instrument at the time. If there are intonation issues, that will be a consequence of the positioning of the replacement bridge, rather than any inaccuracy in the fretwork. The other problems sound like basic setup issues, truss adjustment, neck shim, and at the very worst, a fret dress should sort them.

 

These are pretty uncommon in good original condition these days, and unfortunately like any other vintage instrument, 'upgragdes' and 'improvements' will always eviscerate any value it might have had.

[dajaphonics]

It looks to my untrained eyes that the first fret looks more bowed upward. The strings are really close to the neck here and get further away as you move up the fret board. Yes you're right this is at ET 280. The original bridge was completely useless. No adjustments were possible and the intonation was off before I replaced it. So maybe you're right that the bridge was installed in the wrong position. Let me just check. Here are some photos from the side. 

 

 

[dajaphonics]

@Phil Starr  To me it looks like it's 15 1/8" from the nut to the 12th fret and only about 15" from the 12th to the begging of the sadde. My measurement isn't precise but I think you may be right @skankdelvarI'm not sure how accurate this is and frankly I don't completely trust the guy who did this bridge installation and tightening of the neck. I now remember him saying something like "I had to tighten the hell out of the truss rod to make it work" or something of that nature.

 

I can't tell if there's a twist in the neck. To me it looks like the E string gets progressively further away from the neck the further up the fret board you travel compared to the D and G string. It looks like there could be a slight neck twist. Not certain though it's hard to tell for me.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by dajaphonics

[Downunderwonder]

Measuring the G side would give a better idea, but the octave measure back the other way to the nut looks to be more than what you have got anyway, with thf saddles backed all the way back = fubar placement. Fix that and your intonation problem will be history.

 

Hard to make out any twist in your pics.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Downunderwonder

[dajaphonics]

@Downunderwonder Just measured the G string. It looks like from nut to 12th 15 1/8" and 12th fret to the saddle is just short of 15". So yeah, it looks like the saddle should be placed further back.

 

Also it's not clear from my photos but the second one is from the nut to the 12th fret.

 

Just as a side note the pickups are from All Parts. The one closer to the fretboard is really low and heavy. I sort of like the bridge one a little better.

[Downunderwonder]

Best reposition the bridge per Skank and then see about the rest.

[dajaphonics]

I may have to take it to a tech or luther for this. 

 

[dajaphonics]

Playing in the higher register especially on the G string results in a lot of buzz against the frets.

 

I'm more of a guitar player who's interested in bass so not sure but is this buzzing sound sort of sought out by some players? It makes it sound kind of raw and punk. 

[Phil Starr]

Yeah the bridge is in the wrong place and needs moving back Looking at the pics the rough windings at the end of the string are sitting on the saddles which isn't right. The saddles on my basses are about 1/2" from the end of the screw adjustment which gives me roughly an inch of potential adjustment for intonation which i check each time I do a set up or change strings.

 

You'll have to take the strings off to move the bridge, I'd be running a straight edge along the neck to see what i've got. a slight bow along the neck wouldn't worry me and I'd check I could adjust the truss rod while it was easy to get to it, you might need to loosen and clean and oil it all easier at this stage. If it is straight when there are no strings it will bow into a concave curve when you tune up the strings. What you are aiming for is a slight concave bow. There are loads of YouTube videos of how to do this. Once you've set the relief (amount of bowing) you can then set the string height so that the strings just manage not to buzz when fretted all along the neck. I then set the intonation with an electronic tuner. If its E on the open string it should be E on the 12th fret and so on. Again all of this is on YouTube. It's just about working methodically and going back to double check as adjusting one thing may affect what you've already done. There are useful gauges for setting neck relief and string height which only cost a few $$

 

This is also a skill for a guitarist to know

 

 

 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Phil Starr

[skankdelvar]

12 minutes ago, dajaphonics said:

I may have to take it to a tech or luther for this. 

 

 

 You could.

 

Or you could pop over to the   https://www.basschat.co.uk/forum/12-repairs-and-technical/   forum and post a request for advice on how to do it yourself. That way, even if you end up taking it to a tech you'll understand what the job involves.

 

As regards checking the neck relief there's an easy way that doesn't involve any tools. Tune the bass to standard. Hold down a string (the E or the G) at the first fret and also at the fifteenth. If you've got a capo use it at the first so you can free up a hand. The string is now your straight edge between the first and fifteenth frets.

 

Look at the string and see if the fretboard is curving away from it, leaving a very small gap between the bottom of the string and the frets. If the string is actually touching the frets around the seventh then you've got a flat board which needs relieving. If your bass has been de-tuned for any length of time, tune it up, leave it for a day for the neck to settle then check. 

 

Whichever route you go, good luck and let us know how you get on.

[Downunderwonder]

48 minutes ago, dajaphonics said:

I may have to take it to a tech or luther for this. 

 

Repositioning the bridge only takes a drill and screwdriver. Take bridge off. Mark the new holes through the bridge in the new position. Drill new row of holes. Sucess.

[dajaphonics]

So I talked to a luthier in the area and this is what he said:

 

Changing the bridge position would cost $75. He said that he would have to replace the holes that were already made from the previous drilling. Is this necessary?

 

He thinks that the initial installation of my pickups may have placed the magnetic part too far away from the E string. However, both pickups don't pick up the E very well.

 

Next, he thinks that it will need a shim that would cost $175.

 

Lastly, he said it would cost $60 for a setup. 

 

So he wants USD 300 for all of this. I'm not sure if this bass is worth that much not even knowing that would even guarantee a completely playable and intonated bass at the end.

 

 

[Downunderwonder]

A luthier will always want to fill extraneous holes. You could fill them with boogers and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference under the new bridge position out of sight.

 

Do you not have any hand tools to go with that measuring tape?

 

Shifting the bridge would make the most difference as to making it recordable v pretty wall ornament. All you need is a hand drill.