Vintage 70's bass guitar - worth getting it fixed?

[Downunderwonder]

Those saddles should wind up a heap lower and you may find the pickups are working fine without any need of tweaking. Any number of folk here can guide you through the setup step by step once the bridge is moved back. By the end of that you will be saving untold thousands by not paying someone else to do your setups for the rest of your life.

Edited March 8, 2022 by Downunderwonder

[dajaphonics]

Yeah I have a drill but am concerned I'm going to mess up somehow and destroy the bass completely.

[Downunderwonder]

1 hour ago, dajaphonics said:

Yeah I have a drill but am concerned I'm going to mess up somehow and destroy the bass completely.

There's nothing to go so wrong as to wreck it if you go carefully. Practice on some scrap.

 

It can be handy to punch in the hole location so there's no skating around. Make sure you are drilling vertically. Most people's eyes aren't that great at that from one look.

 

Wrap tape around the drill for the depth if yours doesn't have a depth guide. Say 90% of the screw length. You don't want to come out the other side!

 

I would go with a slightly smaller drill than the screw shaft, one that you can fit the butt end down the old holes without any difficulty.

 

Probably a good idea to take it to the fix it forum as I am no luthier, just an owner of a few tools that I use to fix stuff here and there.

[tegs07]

6 hours ago, dajaphonics said:

Yeah I have a drill but am concerned I'm going to mess up somehow and destroy the bass completely.

Remember your working on wood. Holes can be plugged, cracks can be glued, mistakes can be patched, filled, sanded and repainted. It’s pretty hard to destroy.

[skankdelvar]

$175 for a shim is wildly high unless the tech is proposing to hand craft a wooden shim of precise dimensions and angle of slope and, frankly, that's going too far.

 

Shimming a neck is an easy task which involves unscrewing the neck, slipping a bit of card into one end of the neck pocket and screwing the neck back on. If you want to do it yourself come back here and we'll talk you through it. If you want, PM me and we can arrange a Skype call and I'll talk you through it.

[Maude]

1 hour ago, skankdelvar said:

$175 for a shim is wildly high unless the tech is proposing to hand craft a wooden shim of precise dimensions and angle of slope and, frankly, that's going too far.

Quite.

I'd also expect a set up to be part of having a neck shim, especially at that price. You can't shim a neck and then not set it up, well you can if you just don't care, but I wouldn't want anyone like that working on my basses anyway. 

It almost sounds like he's priced the job out of the water as he doesn't want to do it. 

 

If you (the OP) really don't feel able to do the job then that's fair enough, but it really is a string of simple, small jobs, rather than a big, daunting task. Any number of folks on here will be more than happy to walk you through it oe step at a time. 

 

Best of luck whatever route you choose. 🙂👍

[skankdelvar]

14 minutes ago, Maude said:

it really is a string of simple, small jobs, rather than a big, daunting task

 

Very much this ↑

 

If you can drill a hole more or less straight and you can turn a screwdriver that's all that's going on here.

[dajaphonics]

Ok friends, I just tried tightening the saddles to create a little more distance in the strings. I was able to get the G and B strings to intonate fairly well minus a couple higher frets wouldn't make a proper note (just sort of deadened out). Tightening these saddles made the E string way off. Anyway, clearly as you all have said I need to move the bridge. 

 

After calling a few techs, I'm convinced trying to drill the holes in my bass myself. I asked one tech how much to just drill the new holes, he said, "I'd have to see it before I can give you a quote." He then told me to bring it to the store and they'd hold it then he'd check it out. This exact same thing has happened to me before, when they give you a ridiculous price and then you have to make a terribly awkward to pick it up. I feel like this is a car repair model I've seen around here as well.

 

So how much further back would you recommend I drill?

 

 

[Maude]

Generally speaking your G string saddle will be the furthest forwards (towards the neck), the D,A & E will need progressively more string length to correctly intonate. 

Therefore set your G saddle on nearly it's furthest reach (towards the neck), I say nearly as I always leave some spare adjustment forwards in case of any mis-measuring or string anomalies. On a Fender style bridge leaving about a saddles width of thread sticking out of the saddle should be fine, just in case. 

Then sit your bridge with 34" (if that's the scale of this bass) between the G string nut slot and saddle. 

Measure from the fretboard side of the nut. 

Others may do it differently but I've yet to have this method fail on me yet. 

 

I'd also use a peice of thin string, even cotton, to make an E and G string to ensure the bridge is aligned properly with the neck. 

[Downunderwonder]

How I would do it, others may have a better plan so give it a day or so for it to work through:

 

Per previous you want the octave fret nut distance to be in the ball park of your G saddle at well extended position.

 

Check out the current side to side positioning. Hopefully they got that bit right! That gives you a handy guide for getting it shifted straight back.

 

Assuming it's good, lay down some tape straight back each side of the bridge. Then unscrew it and mark your new position for distance on the tape each side. Also lay down another strip of tape under the holes at that position.

 

Now you can poke a pencil through the holes at the new position to give you a nice row of dots on the tape to drill.

 

Maybe tap a small nail into a dot to see how the drilling goes with a dimple to sit in.

 

Drilling advice already given previous.

On 09/03/2022 at 15:48, Downunderwonder said:

Make sure you are drilling vertically. Most people's eyes aren't so great at picking it from one look.

 

Wrap tape around the drill for the depth if yours doesn't have a depth guide. Say 90% of the screw length. You don't want to come out the other side!

 

I would go with a slightly smaller drill than the screw shaft, one that you can fit the butt end down the old holes without any difficulty.

 

[Burns-bass]

Your best bet is to cash in on the vintage craze and sell it on eBay and buy a modern Squier shortscale bass. You’ll easily sell this for a far higher price than it’s worth and someone will get a project bass.

[Velarian]

It looks like the original bridge on these was a pretty crude two saddle affair and I’m guessing that intonation was never an exact science. In this example the E and A saddles are further forward than the D and G. It seems counterintuitive but is it possible there there is a point further forward where the bottom strings intonate more closely? I seem to remember there was an example of a left hander on here a while back where this was the case.

 

 

[dajaphonics]

@Burns-bass That's what I'm considering. If I put it up on Reverb would you just say it's playable but could use some work? I actually got it modified to mimic the exact bass and pickups LCD Soundystem uses. So perhaps there are others out there looking for this bass and have the know how to get this to sound like it should.

 

It seems like the Squier Jauguar short scales have gone up considerably in price from when they were still making them. I've heard good things about them.

[Downunderwonder]

8 hours ago, dajaphonics said:

@Burns-bass That's what I'm considering. If I put it up on Reverb would you just say it's playable but could use some work? I actually got it modified to mimic the exact bass and pickups LCD Soundystem uses. So perhaps there are others out there looking for this bass and have the know how to get this to sound like it should.

 

It seems like the Squier Jauguar short scales have gone up considerably in price from when they were still making them. I've heard good things about them.

Nah. I will walk you through moving the bridge your tomorrow evening if you like. You can take progress photos along the way. It'll be a piece of cake.

 

Need masking tape, drill choices, a sharp pencil, your measuring tape, a clamp or two wouldn't go amiss but not necessary, the correct screwdriver for the bridge screws is essential, toothpicks.

[Burns-bass]

12 hours ago, dajaphonics said:

@Burns-bass That's what I'm considering. If I put it up on Reverb would you just say it's playable but could use some work? I actually got it modified to mimic the exact bass and pickups LCD Soundystem uses. So perhaps there are others out there looking for this bass and have the know how to get this to sound like it should.

 

It seems like the Squier Jauguar short scales have gone up considerably in price from when they were still making them. I've heard good things about them.

If you love the bass and want to make it work, then do the work!

 

We live in a throwaway culture where it’s easier to buy a replacement than fix something, and as the guys say here it should be easy enough (if you are happy to get the drill out!).

 

I don’t know much about their Devon hand value, but likely much higher than a Squier cost!

 

If you want a good quality instrument that plays well and should need no work, go with the Squier. I found a Squier jag with the matching headstock for £90 locally ($120) and love it.

 

 

[Alien]

On 06/03/2022 at 01:08, Downunderwonder said:

Check the scale length. From the sound of it the bridge is too close to the neck. Measure the nut to 12th fret. Should be same again to the bridge.

12th to bridge is usually a bit longer than nut to 12th - more so on the lower (B&E) strings than the top strings (G/C)

 

A

 

[Alien]

On 11/03/2022 at 08:57, Velarian said:

It looks like the original bridge on these was a pretty crude two saddle affair and I’m guessing that intonation was never an exact science. In this example the E and A saddles are further forward than the D and G. It seems counterintuitive but is it possible there there is a point further forward where the bottom strings intonate more closely? I seem to remember there was an example of a left hander on here a while back where this was the case.

 

 

Use your tuner to compare the 12th fret harmonic against the fretted note at the 12th.

If the fretted note is flat by comparison, move the bridge saddle toward the nut by loosening the intonation screw.  If the fretted note is sharp, move the saddle back a little.
You won't be able to get perfection across all the frets on all strings, but doing this will get as close as you're likely to ever need.

 

Hope this helps!

 

A

 

[Downunderwonder]

36 minutes ago, Alien said:

Use your tuner to compare the 12th fret harmonic against the fretted note at the 12th.

If the fretted note is flat by comparison, move the bridge saddle toward the nut by loosening the intonation screw.  If the fretted note is sharp, move the saddle back a little.
You won't be able to get perfection across all the frets on all strings, but doing this will get as close as you're likely to ever need.

 

Hope this helps!

 

A

 

It's been well established by measurement already if you bothered to read the thread.

[dajaphonics]

On 11/03/2022 at 22:00, Downunderwonder said:

Nah. I will walk you through moving the bridge your tomorrow evening if you like. You can take progress photos along the way. It'll be a piece of cake.

 

Need masking tape, drill choices, a sharp pencil, your measuring tape, a clamp or two wouldn't go amiss but not necessary, the correct screwdriver for the bridge screws is essential, toothpicks.

Hey Downunderwonder! Sorry for the long lapse for my reply. I just wanted to give you an update and my general feeling. So I found a cheap Squier Jaguar. It's nice. It plays well and all that, but for some reason or another I just like the sound of the Epiphone bridge pickup (smaller Gibson). However, I sort of regret installing the other Gibson clone (mudbucker style). It's just too deep and a little intrusive in a mix. Additionally, something I didn't mention before is that the electronics are a little dodgy in the Epiphone. It's hard to get the lead just right so there's no additional noise. I don't know if this would require a solder.

 

So as of right now I'm game to take on some work for this bass. I don't know if I want to mess with the mudbucker but, I guess it would be nice if there was a more usable pickup in that spot. Otherwise, perhaps I'll just leave it in place. One thing is for sure, is that I think I'm ready to drill into the bass. If you're still willing to help me that would be cool. 

 

I was messing around with the poles as well for the E string and I could get some additional volume out of it but it was a little touchy. At some point when I raise it too high it just sort of completely cuts in and out. 

[Downunderwonder]

Need correct screwdriver for the bridge screws and the correct hex keys for all the adjustments.

 

The correct one will fit the fixing like a glove. 'Close not enough' will have a little play.

[dajaphonics]

I removed the bridge today. Looks like there is a weird slant drilled hole. I can't tell if it goes all the way to the pickups or not. Weird.

 

Anyway, any suggestions on how far back I should move the bridge? Right now the halfway point is about 11 7/12". The second half was just a little under that. If I drill to where there are other holes it barely covers up the holes drilled for the original bridge. 

 

I'm actually thinking of making it a little more aesthetically pleasing as well. Maybe fill in some holes with putty. Any suggestions for a type of filler? 

 

Since the pickup poles don't align with the strings I was thinking about getting a new neck pickup. Any suggestions?

 

[Velarian]

The slant hole is for the ground wire and this will connect to a suitable ground point in the control cavity. Some form of grounding will need to be maintained. 
 

One thing I don’t really understand is that if the original bridge position is correct, as designed (and I think it is) then unless the design is fundamentally wrong, why move it?

 

If I was trying to establish the correct position I would measure the distance from the front face of the nut to the centre of the twelfth fret. Then, move the bridge saddle of the G string to within a couple of millimetres of its furthest forward position. The break point of the G string saddle should then be positioned at the same distance from the centre of the twelfth fret as the distance from the nut. 

Edited March 29, 2022 by Velarian

[dajaphonics]

Thanks for clarifying that about the ground point@Velarian

 

My bridge was replaced but done by some random guy I found on craigslist (US). Maybe my bad. According to several people on this forum they said that the bridge is positioned too far forward. 

 

[Downunderwonder]

Got to run but if you read back it's all there where the bridge should be.

 

The pickup isn't aligned either???

[dajaphonics]

Yeah both pickups aren't aligned either. When I bought them back in 2014 they were labeled as Gibson style pickups. I didn't know anything about measurements for the poles, I just thought they'd work. I think this is the reason the E string is pretty soft sounding compared to the rest. 

 

Thank you once again @Downunderwonder I forgot you give step by step instructions. They're all so detailed. I found the right bit and will probably do the drilling tomorrow. Wish me luck.

 

One other question, I noticed there was no wire coming through the ground wire hole. Should I do anything about this when reinstalling the bridge?