Are bolt on neck joints rubbish?!

[Boodang]

Don't get me wrong, I own jazz basses and love them but in every case they would be better without that clumsy neck joint that stops your thumb around the 15th fret. I'm finally getting around to having a jazz made with a set neck (see build diaries) so upper fret access will not be a chore.

But which would you prefer. This;

Or this;

 

My custom is a through neck and if there's fretboard then there's a neck behind it not a neck joint.

When you go from this to a bass with a standard bolt on neck it really does feel clumsy, clunky and awkward. I'm sure there's a moduler cost saving element to it but this is a guitar not an ikea table and for me a bolt on is far from ideal. And how much is a Fender American standard? Maybe bolt on necks should just be banned!!!

[bubinga5]

 No...   Its not like a bolt on neck gets in the way of your playing. Way more important things on an instrument.  I dont think a bolt on neck has anything to do with upper access either. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by bubinga5

[Boodang]

7 minutes ago, bubinga5 said:

 No...   Its not like a bolt on neck gets in the way of your playing. Way more important things on an instrument.  I dont think a bolt on neck has anything to do with upper access either. 

I definitely feel as if the bolt on is getting in the way of my playing on a jazz. I'm playing with a different technique around the joint area (stretching over with my fingers and my thumb not under them on the neck, mostly because there isn't one at that point), compared to my neck thru where it's seamless.

[AndyTravis]

Yeah, they’ll never catch on.

[Reggaebass]

My jazz elite has the cutaway fo easier access to the upper frets, it’s not much use to me as I don’t venture up the dusty end  😁

[Paul S]

What are you doing all the way up there, anyway?  

[AndyTravis]

3 minutes ago, Paul S said:

What are you doing all the way up there, anyway?  

I’m up there a fair bit…don’t see the point in it being there if it’s not being used

[Paul S]

You mean it isn't just there to make up the scale length?

[AndyTravis]

Just now, Paul S said:

You mean it isn't just there to make up the scale length?

No. It’s the space I reserve for mistakes.

[Gareth Hughes]

3 minutes ago, AndyTravis said:

No. It’s the space I reserve for mistakes.

 

This is just perfect, and will be with me forever. Thank you!

[Lozz196]

The newer Fenders, the Professional II have the cutaway as per the Elite series. It’s never concerned me but I can see why some would prefer this.

[Boodang]

30 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

My jazz elite has the cutaway fo easier access to the upper frets, it’s not much use to me as I don’t venture up the dusty end  😁

Right there, Fender acknowledging there's an issue! Of course if you don't venture up the dusty end it's a bit academic!

[Boodang]

22 minutes ago, Paul S said:

What are you doing all the way up there, anyway?  

Good point! I guess Mr Fender thought nobody would be playing up the dusty end so why worry about doing a fancy joint!

[leftybassman392]

Not in and of themselves, no.

 

OP is making massive assumptions about how the instrument is to be used.

 

So many factors to consider here that the question is entirely academic.

[visog]

OP - no. They create different tonal responses. But as far as integrity goes... not heard anyone say my bolt-on neck fell off. Doesn't happen. So we're into the tone which is brighter for a bolt-on but more compressed in the attack for a neck through with a longer sustain. 

[Boodang]

14 minutes ago, visog said:

OP - no. They create different tonal responses. But as far as integrity goes... not heard anyone say my bolt-on neck fell off. Doesn't happen. So we're into the tone which is brighter for a bolt-on but more compressed in the attack for a neck through with a longer sustain. 

That's why I'm going for a set net with my latest build rather than a neck thru. 

[Boodang]

23 minutes ago, leftybassman392 said:

Not in and of themselves, no.

 

OP is making massive assumptions about how the instrument is to be used.

 

So many factors to consider here that the question is entirely academic.

I think my point is, if you're going to make a guitar with a bolt on neck, why do it in such a way that makes upper fret access more awkward than playing elsewhere on the neck. For me, if there's frets there should be a neck behind them, not a neck joint. For me, the standard Fender type joint is quite a clumsy solution. 

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

If you think bolt-on necks are bad for this you want to have a look at non-cutaway acoustic guitars

[Boodang]

11 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Pickguard said:

If you think bolt-on necks are bad for this you want to have a look at non-cutaway acoustic guitars

I play double bass as well, so upper fingerboard access is not exactly a breeze.... at least not for me. Funny enough I enjoy the challenge of thumb position playing on the DB but when it comes to bass guitar I prefer a neck that's 'access all areas' which as there is not a huge acoustic body in the way shouldn't be difficult to achieve.

[itu]

2 hours ago, visog said:

So we're into the tone which is brighter for a bolt-on but more compressed in the attack for a neck through with a longer sustain. 

Pretty grave simplification. I would say this is a feel-based opinion rather than scientifically measured and ABX tested. What's your research data, and where can we find it?

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, Boodang said:

Don't get me wrong, I own jazz basses and love them but in every case they would be better without that clumsy neck joint that stops your thumb around the 15th fret.

 

Does it? I never knew that!

[Boodang]

40 minutes ago, itu said:

Pretty grave simplification. I would say this is a feel-based opinion rather than scientifically measured and ABX tested. What's your research data, and where can we find it?

Interestingly someone did a comparison (it's in YouTube somewhere I think) between two similar Ibanez SR models where one was bolt on, the other was a neck thru. The bolt on seemed to have less highs and more mids in comparison to the neck thru.

Not conclusive or comprehensive by any means, but interesting. 

[Boodang]

31 minutes ago, chris_b said:

 

Does it? I never knew that!

Well, let's see.. your thumb is on the back of the neck (or wrapped over the E string if your name is Navarro), you play high up, your hand slides up to get to that 21st fret (in your dreams Fender!), your fingers get there but the thumb is left behind, blocked by a lumpy piece of wood called a neck joint. It's like playing in the thumb position on a DB!

[leftybassman392]

Call me a hard-bitten old fart cynic, but I feel a 'tonewood' thread coming on, so I'm going to bow out.

 

Have a good one guys.

 

 

[Cato]

13 hours ago, Reggaebass said:

My jazz elite has the cutaway fo easier access to the upper frets, it’s not much use to me as I don’t venture up the dusty end  😁

 

I've got a pro ii strat with a similar heel design.

 

Tbh I was surprised how much easier such a small and presumably inexpensive design change made to the upper fret access.

 

It's a shame Fender only seem to feature it on US made instruments.

Edited March 6, 2022 by Cato