Are bolt on neck joints rubbish?!

[Boodang]

3 hours ago, dclaassen said:

This is the best I’ve ever played in regards to consistent tone and playability top to bottom. No problems with the cut away either.

 

 

Ah, Pedulla basses are wonderful.  Shame they're not going to be making anymore. Definitely a bass I want to add to my collection at some stage.

[Boodang]

4 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Although I had a Gibson Les Paul bass for a while I’ve always been a bit wary of neck through basses in case they get snapped/broken. Probably more indicative of the gigs I used to do than any short-comings of the instruments themselves. 

Have to admit I've never broken a neck but I wouldn't choose a bass based on what would happen if I did. I remember being in a music shop overhearing a conversation between a salesman and a punter when this arguement was presented and I thought no! Buy the bass you like playing not the one you think is easier to replace a neck on because A. that will more than likely not happen and B. If it does, who gives a sh*t! At least you'll have a good story.

[Boodang]

5 hours ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

 

Moot point given the recent news re: Vigier shutting up shop next year 😔

Yep, such a shame that they will not be in production for much longer. I was disappointed though when the series 4 went over to bolt on as I thought their thru neck basses were something truely special, especially with their own single coil pickups. I did actually email to ask them why they moved over to this construction method but the reply was very wishy washy and therefore made me think it was for financial reasons.

At some stage I want to track down a Vigier Passion thru neck with a delta metal fretless board but you don't often see them for sale. One of the truly great basses.

Incidentally they changed the name of the 'delta metal' fretboard to 'iMetal' which irritated the f*ck out of me as everything seems to have 'i' in front of it these days in a misguided marketing attempt to make it somehow modern and relevant (another old man rant from me!). I sent them an email about that as well!! 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Boodang

[tegs07]

So in conclusion if you like to spend your time widdling around at the dusty end of the neck avoid the Fender Jazz. If you want to play music people actually want to listen to don’t worry.

[BillyBass]

10 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Although I had a Gibson Les Paul bass for a while I’ve always been a bit wary of neck through basses in case they get snapped/broken. Probably more indicative of the gigs I used to do than any short-comings of the instruments themselves. 

Sid Vicious preferred bolt ons too

 

 

 

[Barking Spiders]

21 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

What on earth are you doing up around the 15th fret? Madness.

 

I also had to re-read that. Couldn't believe my eyes that any self-respecting bassist would contemplate such a thing!!!

Edited March 7, 2022 by Barking Spiders

[Sibob]

1 hour ago, tegs07 said:

So in conclusion if you like to spend your time widdling around at the dusty end of the neck avoid the Fender Jazz. If you want to play music people actually want to listen to don’t worry.

Who’s going to let Jaco know? 
 

Si

[tegs07]

19 minutes ago, Sibob said:

Who’s going to let Jaco know? 
 

Si

Jaco was a genius. One I rarely listen to. Most people aren’t Jaco. Most people won’t be affected by any difficulty reaching the last couple of frets (if there is a difficulty) if you are then buy a different bass by all means but I would caution that anyone in the audience that isn’t a muso really will be bored rigid if you are widdling away on the far dusty end.

Edited March 7, 2022 by tegs07

[Doddy]

11 hours ago, itu said:

You tell us that bigger parts of instrument quality woods cost as much as smaller. I don't think so. Those big chunks of usable wood are rare, and expensive, than let's say a fretboard. Try to find a one piece body of some hardwood and you may be amazed of the price.

I never said anything about the price of big pieces of wood being the same as smaller pieces. I don't know where you got that from.

 

11 hours ago, itu said:

This bolt-on vs. NT and those irrational comments about sustain and "punch" are just funny. Without real world blind tests the words are meaningless. And as woods are not as consistent as many man-made materials, the same design sounds very different from unit to another. Tonewoods, constructional differencies, no more of this, please.

Sorry, but I'm going to take advise from the various luthiers I've spoken to, and from my own playing experiences, and say that there is nothing irrational about talk of woods or construction. They all make a difference to the sound of an instrument, no matter how subtle.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

13 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Jaco was a genius. One I rarely listen to. Most people aren’t Jaco. Most people won’t be affected by any difficulty reaching the last couple of frets (if there is a difficulty) if you are then buy a different bass by all means but I would caution that anyone in the audience that isn’t a muso really will be bored rigid if you are widdling away on the far dusty end.

Why is there an assumption that anybody playing up the dusty end is widdling? Notes is notes, doesn't matter where you play them. 

[tegs07]

1 minute ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Why is there an assumption that anybody playing up the dusty end is widdling? Notes is notes, doesn't matter where you play them. 

Ok I will extract the widdling. Play whatever and however you like. I was just trying to say I don’t think there is an issue with bolt on necks. I can easily reach the 19th fret an a standard bolt on neck Jazz bass but rarely need to do so as the vast amount of popular music tends to utilise the other end of the fretboard. 

[Geek99]

1 hour ago, Barking Spiders said:

 

I also had to re-read that. Couldn't believe my eyes that any self-respecting bassist would contemplate such a thing!!!

Probably a guitarist underneath …

[Barking Spiders]

27 minutes ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Why is there an assumption that anybody playing up the dusty end is widdling? Notes is notes, doesn't matter where you play them. 

 

As long as they're not being played in a noodlesome fashion

[Reggaebass]

Dare I say it but Most playing I’ve seen within the stratosphere of the 15th fret was noodlesome 

[EssentialTension]

17 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Dare I say it but Most playing I’ve seen within the stratosphere of the 15th fret was noodlesome 

So, if you were to go up there, play the fill or execute the motif, and then quickly get back down your own end. There's a job to be done.

[Reggaebass]

1 minute ago, EssentialTension said:

and then quickly get back down your own end.

Very quickly for me, I’d get vertigo 😁

[Boodang]

57 minutes ago, tegs07 said:

Ok I will extract the widdling. Play whatever and however you like. I was just trying to say I don’t think there is an issue with bolt on necks. I can easily reach the 19th fret an a standard bolt on neck Jazz bass but rarely need to do so as the vast amount of popular music tends to utilise the other end of the fretboard. 

As the saying goes, the money notes are not at the dusty end of the neck.... but that doesn't mean we can't go there! 

So, whilst the 19th fret is not that hard to get to, try doing an exercise out of Janek Gwizdala's book Chordal Harmony with a bolt on and see how you get on. Ah you say, just buy a bass that's suitable.... and you're right! Except it just raises the question that is a bolt on joint actually up to the job (and I mean playability not strength) and i would say it's not fit for purpose. If you gave 2 pieces of wood to a proper joiner he wouldn't bolt them together. It just seems like a cheap, unimaginative way to make a bass.

Now as to why I'm up there, well as we've established it doesn't have to be widdling. Check out some of the double bass icons and see how far up the neck they go when walking to add interest into their lines. Also chordal stuff (aka Gwizdala) works nicely, again to add interest (and no, I'm not a frustrated guitarist, how dare you! The upper register notes on a bass sound so much different to a guitar). I used to play in a folk/rock band and play high up to double the lead riffs which sounded good, and my fretless lines start/end up in dusty end often as again it adds interest. Many reasons to be up there.

[tegs07]

4 minutes ago, Boodang said:

As the saying goes, the money notes are not at the dusty end of the neck.... but that doesn't mean we can't go there! 

So, whilst the 19th fret is not that hard to get to, try doing an exercise out of Janek Gwizdala's book Chordal Harmony with a bolt on and see how you get on. Ah you say, just buy a bass that's suitable.... and you're right! Except it just raises the question that is a bolt on joint actually up to the job (and I mean playability not strength) and i would say it's not fit for purpose. If you gave 2 pieces of wood to a proper joiner he wouldn't bolt them together. It just seems like a cheap, unimaginative way to make a bass.

Now as to why I'm up there, well as we've established it doesn't have to be widdling. Check out some of the double bass icons and see how far up the neck they go when walking to add interest into their lines. Also chordal stuff (aka Gwizdala) works nicely, again to add interest (and no, I'm not a frustrated guitarist, how dare you! The upper register notes on a bass sound so much different to a guitar). I used to play in a folk/rock band and play high up to double the lead riffs which sounded good, and my fretless lines start/end up in dusty end often as again it adds interest. Many reasons to be up there.

Doesn’t that dude play highly complex pieces on a 6 string bass? Not really a mass market kind of music but sure if your going down that route a different bass would be required.

[Boodang]

27 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

Dare I say it but Most playing I’ve seen within the stratosphere of the 15th fret was noodlesome 

Check out Michael Moore's book Melodic Playing in the Thumb Position to see how being up around the 15th fret can be ... well, melodic!

Double bass players have long realised there's a lot of effective playing a bass player can do in that region and they're not afraid to go there. It seems it's more in their DNA than bass guitar players which is ironic given how much harder it is to do on a DB.

[Boodang]

1 minute ago, tegs07 said:

Doesn’t that dude play highly complex pieces on a 6 string bass? Not really a mass market kind of music but sure if your going down that route a different bass would be required.

Gwizdala plays 5 string but strung high C. I'm just using his playing as an example of what can be done but you're right, it's hardly mainstream.

I've got a custom that's made for that type of work but when I play fretless 4 string I still want to use the full range of the bass but not  necessarily in a Gwizdala way. I'm just bemoaning the fact that i like to play Jazz basses but it would be nice to have one available without the bulky bolt on, without having to go the extent of getting it custom made.

[Reggaebass]

4 minutes ago, Boodang said:

Check out Michael Moore's book Melodic Playing in the Thumb Position to see how being up around the 15th fret can be ... well, melodic!

I’ve been joking, I do venture there sometimes as I like playing the whole fretboard, but not very often, the music I play doesn’t normally go above the 7th-9th 

[Boodang]

2 minutes ago, Reggaebass said:

I’ve been joking, I do venture there sometimes as I like playing the whole fretboard, but not very often, the music I play doesn’t normally go above the 7th-9th 

Yeah, as you say the bulk of playing is always going to be below the 9th (unless you're Gwizdala!) but it's nice not to ignore the dusty end.

Funny enough, as I've been playing mostly with keyboard players (piano/bass/drums stuff), I've gravitated to centering my playing on the C rather than working from the low E, as I'm the only 'string' instrument in the band.

[neepheid]

Bolt on neck joints - they really don't bother me.  I'm sorry they bother you to the degree where you advocate their banning.  Please don't ban half my basses!

 

They've got a stupid name, I'll give you that.  No bolts involved, even if you do one of those mods with threaded inserts and machine screws, because although a machine screw can function as a bolt it's not being used that way in this context (no nut - tightened against opposing thread).

 

Whether or not they're responsible for a directly attributable change in the tone of a bass, I'm not touching that one.  Over such things holy wars are fought and never really won.

[Boodang]

11 minutes ago, neepheid said:

Bolt on neck joints - they really don't bother me.  I'm sorry they bother you to the degree where you advocate their banning.  Please don't ban half my basses!

 

They've got a stupid name, I'll give you that.  No bolts involved, even if you do one of those mods with threaded inserts and machine screws, because although a machine screw can function as a bolt it's not being used that way in this context (no nut - tightened against opposing thread).

 

Whether or not they're responsible for a directly attributable change in the tone of a bass, I'm not touching that one.  Over such things holy wars are fought and never really won.

Yep, don't know why, but from the very first bass I got many moons ago, I thought the 'bolt on' arrangement was clumsy and most un-elegant. Consequently i saved up so I could get a neck thru custom made and solve the issue.

But since then I've owned many 'bolt ons' as well (but still prefer neck thru), so to avoid getting rid of half my collection, as well as yours, when I'm PM I'll just ban them from now on!

[4000]

3 hours ago, Cosmo Valdemar said:

Why is there an assumption that anybody playing up the dusty end is widdling? Notes is notes, doesn't matter where you play them. 

Unsurprisingly, I was just about to post exactly the same thing! 
 

Most of my favourite players, in most of my favourite bands, use the entire fretboard. Why wouldn’t you?