Todays Amp choices

[BassAdder60]

Having returned to the bass playing world three years ago I have found that some of the amp choices for us bass players seem somewhat wanting.

 

Having played big heavy Ampeg SVT CL heads in the past and before that Ashdown ABM I can never recall we thought they were lacking in heft and power. 

Today with so many amp choices and many now Class D for the light weight option they do appear to have more issues with either cutting out, early failures, difficult to repair, and wattage ratings that do not seem to match the perceived output volume.

 

I will say that for some folks it’s not an issue if you get your sound through venue PA rigs but when you need your own amp to do the work having the power to project and be heard is vital.

 

Im not knocking class D as it’s the future but I’ve had more faulty, problematic, lacking in power amps since I’ve tried class D compared to say the ABM600 which is an amp I believe I can trust in it’s power, heft and ability to be repaired if required.

 

 

[Japhet]

Modern life innit. Just like modern cars where a small electrical failure can render it beyond repair, modern amps are packed with gadgets nobody ever needed before and potential customers are beguiled with a load of exaggerated flannel (much like fuel consumption figures 'cough' VW). The price of progress I guess.

[Lozz196]

I must admit in my early years of gigging, late 80s & early 90s, the thought of an amp not working just wasn`t something that was considered. Of course not having enough money for backups was a main factor for in not having one but I don`t think I ever spoke to any musician who had had amp failure, or who had a backup amp. In those days pretty much everyone seemed to only have one amp, two instruments maybe.

[Waddycall]

I’m experimenting with giving up on bass specific amps and got a class a/b power amp to try with my bass pod. I feel very optimistic about it. No band practice til next Thursday so fingers crossed it’s  going to do what I think it will.

[Doddy]

I had more problems with my big old heads than I have with my class D stuff. 

I love big amps but I can get exactly the sound I want with my Ashdown Retroglide,and it fits in a small case.

[la bam]

I've been all round the houses re amps - solid state, class d, all valve, hybrid, PA amps etc - and no doubt will again

 

I've had valve amps that were glorious, but fragile, and too heavy.

 

I've had class d that were thin and lifeless.

 

solid state class a/b hybrids seem to be a nice middle ground. Never really had an issue.

 

However at the moment, I'm back were I was 10 years ago - with markbass amps and cabs. Super light, hefty and in no way feels like a class d amp (I think they make their own modules). Using a sansamp before it just opened everything up tone wise and now it really does sound glorious with a vertical 4x10.

The only downside - I dont think they're efficiently and economically repairable, and markbass customer service is non existent from my experience. However, I've never ever had an issue with one. Being lightweight means it's no hassle at all to carry a spare. Pretty much 7kg for an amp and back up combined. Bass in one hand, cab in the other and amp in bag makes it a one trip for practice and 2 trips (double equipment) for a gig.

 

Theyve just released the mark 4s and I'd have one in a heartbeat, but the second hand lm3 I bought is just that good I've no need to swap.

[thodrik]

To be honest, I have had way more experiences of poorly/rarely maintained Ampeg SVT or other valve amps cutting out in the middle of a gig (or even going on fire!) compared to pretty much any other type of amp. Valve guitar amps 'going wrong' in the middle of a gig was and is an expected part of gigging. In fact, 'anything and everything going wrong' is an expected part of gigging.

Accordingly, I really can't agree with a 'back in the day, everyone had one amp and nobody had technical problems but all these new class D amps are causing reliability problems we never used to have before' viewpoint. 
 

While I do love old school amps, I do think that the premium class D amps are at least as reliable, if not more reliable than most of the solid state MOSFET amps from the 80s and 90s. The technology involved with the class D amps does make them essentially impossible to self repair and so complicated to repair that paying a tech to repair it is uneconomic. However, a full re-tube and cost of repair of an SVT or another valve amp generally costs about the same as a pretty good class D amp, so whether an amp is 'repairable' is all bit relative. It is also getting more difficult to source parts for the old MOSFET amps so they are becoming less repairable as well. 

Compared to when I was starting to learn in the late 1990s there is in my opinion an amazing collection of amps to choose from in the current market. 

[JPJ]

Without wishing to get into the whole 'heft' class A/B/C/D/E/F etc debate, I do feel like we have a much smaller range of options these days, or is that just the effect of my rose tinted glasses?

 

[thodrik]

9 minutes ago, JPJ said:

Without wishing to get into the whole 'heft' class A/B/C/D/E/F etc debate, I do feel like we have a much smaller range of options these days, or is that just the effect of my rose tinted glasses?

 

Back in the day, the option was either all valve, solid state MOSFET amps or 'hybrid' amps which were essentially MOSFET amps which a preamp tube or two. These days the solid state amps that dominated the prior era have been replaced by class D amps. Even with class D amps you get the 'hybrid' version with pre-amp tubes.

 

The class D amps are also generally cheaper than a lot of the old MOSFET amps were. For example, the top line Mesa bass head would easily cost you upwards of £2,000 circa 2010-2015. In 2022, the top of the line Subway amps are about £1300. Even the new flagship Trace Elliot head is going to be less expensive than the 12 band amps that Peavey launched back in 2006. 

The options are only limited now if you have a pre-determined dislike of class D amps or really miss the market presence formerly taken by names like SWR, Eden or Marshall who have now disappeared from the market. However, you can still buy new MOSFET or valve amps from a number of makers so I just don't see any basis for there not being any choice on the market today. 

[BigRedX]

In almost 50 years of playing I have had exactly 2 amps fail on me.

 

One was a cheap, poorly maintained secondhand valve amp that died mid-way through the first gig I used it at, and the other was entirely down to user error, when I plugged in both sides of a dual channel class-D amp into the same speaker cab and released the magic smoke.

 

Since for the vast majority of gigs I play these days my choice of amp makes zero contribution to the bass sound that the audience hear (as the FoH bass is entirely provided by the PA) I have ditched my big, expensive and impressive looking bass rigs in favour of a Helix and FRFR cab (and I only take the FRFR cab to gigs where I don't expect the foldback to be up to the task of producing an audible bass sound on stage).

[yorks5stringer]

I also think that with regard to the Class D amps is that many more have been sold than the old valve ones. So a 1% Class D failure rate shows up much more than a 5% Valve Amp failure rate. Yes, a Class D may not be repairable like an old Valve Amp but it costs a lot less to buy and Valve Amp repairs can be costly too. Apparently power valves should be replaced every 18-24 months  and preamp every 4 years and cost around £15 ? each.....

Did someone mention CLass D are much lighter too......?

[Ed_S]

I was probably a relatively early adopter of lightweight gear - my Markbass LM2 was my introduction and has a 2007 date sticker which won't be too far off when I got it. I've been using lightweight gear ever since and personally have never had an amp die on me which isn't the result of a publicised and acknowledged problem with parts or manufacturing. The fact that my main amp is of conveniently negligible size and weight, and in case I feel it's any less reliable for it I can carry a backup amp that I barely know is there, just makes my gigging life so much happier and more enjoyable than lugging a single amp around that's ultra-reliable and universally-repairable but I have to carry into a venue like the Húsafell Stone.

 

That said, I'm not a fan of manufacturers in any field who try to shoehorn too much into a product, and that's the creeping problem that I see potentially reducing my personal level of choice in lightweight amps. I want an amp for playing live, so a DI out is handy but I won't buy one that has a headphone out and auxiliary in for jamming along to tracks at home, or a built-in effects setup with a phone app to configure it, or anything that requires software updates for different voices, or has a Bluetooth input or a USB interface for recording into a DAW etc. I just see it as something else to go wrong, something that I'm paying for which I don't need, something which may have introduced a design compromise or diverted attention, budget and board space away from the bits I need to be as good and durable as they possibly can be, and something where you can almost guarantee that in 5 years nobody will have a phone that still runs the app that they discontinued 2 years before that. Just give me a one-trick pony with a trick that I like.

 

The heft and authority and general volume thing... I'm currently satisfied that it's a design issue, not a technology one. The amp I've experienced with the most power and authority is the Ashdown ABM 1000, which has a lightweight power section.

[Lozz196]

I had one of those ABM 1000s, Ed, great amps. I did prefer my ABM600 due to the more flexible eq, but the 1000 certainly was a door-slammer.

[Ed_S]

41 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

I had one of those ABM 1000s, Ed, great amps. I did prefer my ABM600 due to the more flexible eq, but the 1000 certainly was a door-slammer.

 

Oh aye, they're that alright! Still makes me smile every time I use it 🙂

 

For the record I had a 600 for a while as well and there's absolutely nothing to complain about there either. And an original shiny RM800 which wasn't far off the ABM600 to be honest.

 

I wanted to buy a Tech 21 dUg Ultra Bass 1000 as I came to believe that it used a very similar power module to the ABM1000 and I was curious to see if it had the same slam in a different implementation, but the price of those things was always too much to justify for an experiment. Anyways, I digress!

[JPJ]

On 23/02/2022 at 19:52, mrtcat said:

I just can't get on with Ashdown amps. I really wish I did but I just don't like the core sound and I don't like the EQ section. Pity because the customer service is excellent.

 

 

This was me. I’d tried the ABM’s and the MAG’s in various rehearsal rooms and always found them to be a little dull or lifeless. Then I tried the Head of Doom and I’m a convert. Oh and spot on about the customer service - absolutely first class!

 

21 hours ago, thodrik said:

The options are only limited now if you have a pre-determined dislike of class D amps or really miss the market presence formerly taken by names like SWR, Eden or Marshall who have now disappeared from the market.

 

Yes that was my point - by choice I meant choice of manufacturer rather than amplifier topology.

[thodrik]

15 minutes ago, JPJ said:

 

This was me. I’d tried the ABM’s and the MAG’s in various rehearsal rooms and always found them to be a little dull or lifeless. Then I tried the Head of Doom and I’m a convert. Oh and spot on about the customer service - absolutely first class!

 

 

Yes that was my point - by choice I meant choice of manufacturer rather than amplifier topology.

There are far more specialist bass amp manufacturers now compared to any point in the past so I really don't understand an argument that there is a more limited choice amplifiers now compared to the past.

 

Back in the late 1980s Trace Elliot, SWR, Eden etc were one of a few companies specialising in bass amplification. The number of specialist bass amplifier manufacturers has increased exponentially since then.  

Edited March 11, 2022 by thodrik

[gjones]

It's not the amps that are the issue, necessarily, it's the fact that these days we don't whack them through gigantic 8x10 speaker cabs, or two 4x10s.

 

These days everyone is after a  light 'one cab solution', which is fine but it can't compete with a wall of speakers behind you for (whisper the word)......heft.

[chris_b]

I had far more issues with valve amps than I've had with SS and D class put together.

 

D class is a mature technology. You haven't heard a major touring band that hasn't been running D class powered FOH in 15 years. If D class didn't hit the spot in every category those PA guys wouldn't be using it.

 

D class amps are the new standard for bass for a reason, they are reliable and sound good.

[itu]

D class can be seen reliable because if two things: there are very few solutions available (lots of testing), and they are built in pretty big numbers. This means that the amps can be seen built under only few power sections and few amp sections. Big amounts of stuff equals testing and reliability.

 

It is easy to understand that there may have been first batches of amps that were not so reliable. On the other hand the repairability is the result of making the units small and light. (I've seen a switching power changing from a powerful box to smoke. The components were practically turned to dust. Most of the PCBA and the components just vanished. Yes, it was a tad too small.)

[Downunderwonder]

15 hours ago, JPJ said:

Yes that was my point - by choice I meant choice of manufacturer rather than amplifier topology

Ya reckon? There's loads of boutique brands that weren't mainstream 30 years ago. Fancy a Vanderklay or a Verellen or an Aguilar or a Handbox...