Toxic Masculinity

[Misdee]

19 minutes ago, such said:

So we were wrong stopping Holocaust? Because injustice is only a "so-called" concept, and cruelty is natural and good for mankind's thriving? For the large majority of its history, the humankind was also shaped by not brushing their teeth and not using electronic devices. How are you doing sticking with that, in order to be a manlier blokier bloke? 

We didn't stop the Holocaust. More than six million people were murdered. The Holocaust ended because we fought the Nazis and won. That  victory was a demonstration of our martial instinct.

 

The social and technological advances you reference are also a manifestation of the invigorating influence of our competitive nature.

 

I am not trying to be a manly bloke. I am not trying to be anything. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by Misdee

[Caz]

9 hours ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

I tend to find most of such banter extremely tedious, because I'm old and I was alive and in my teens in the 1970s, so nothing much offends me any more. This kind of stuff does occasionally still p!ss me off, however.

I've said this before - try imagining a similar situation to that described by the 'joke' or 'banter', and replace the female with a black person or a gay person, and see if telling or laughing at such 'joke' still sounds acceptable to your ears. Most of the times it won't.

Yep! Women become experts in shrugging off crap jokes and stupid comments pretty quickly. If you really want to talk about 'toxic masculinity' focus on the important things. I've been a working musician in London for 14 years now and it definitely feels less safe now than when I arrived. For one example, rape prosecution rates have fallen over the last decade to 1.6% - read this article "We are facing the 'decriminalisation of rape', warns victims' commissioner" https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/14/we-are-facing-the-decriminalisation-of-warns-victims-commissioner

 

There are serious topics to be upset about. Toxic masculinity doesn't just affect women, and certainly shouldn't be reduced to a conversation about crap jokes. I do like seeing it get called out though, to me it's a sign of professionalism - and I appreciate many of the comments here. I work with a lot of young women and girls who struggle with confidence even though they are often very talented musicians - there's a lot of work to be done to create a culture where they feel welcome.

 

I always call out any racism / homophobia etc when working even if it is disguised as 'banter', you never know who in the room is quietly really appreciating you standing up for them. Thankfully, it tends to be quite rare in professional music environments these days, you'd get called out on it pretty quickly.

 

Caroline

[wateroftyne]

Hi all. Shutting this one down as it's a discussion we've had many times before, and it never goes anywhere other than south (with apologies to Southerners).