Tips on bowing an EUB

[Grahambythesea]

Having only recently taken up EUB, I am now trying to get the hang of bowing it. I’m finding it really difficult to get a consistent sound and often I seem to get a harmonic sound which seems to be an octave higher than the note I think I’m playing.

Im using a French bow and I guess because it’s new it seems to need a lot of rosin and regular re-rosining (if there is such a word). Any tips?

[Owen]

What strings are you using. Not all strings are equal once the bow comes to play. 

[Grahambythesea]

The ones supplied by NS which I think are D’ Addario

[Owen]

From what I recall, they are not particularly arco friendly. Sorry, this is a very slippery rabbit hole. 

[Silvia Bluejay]

IIRC the strings supplied as standard by NS on their uprights are D'Addario Hybrids, in order to be reasonably useful to all kinds of buyers of the EUB.

I think most experienced players recommend choosing a set of arco-friendly strings (and there are lots of differences among those as well) if arco represents the bulk of your playing. I almost exclusively do pizz, so I'm afraid I can't be of any help in this case.

[Grahambythesea]

Thanks, @Silvia Bluejay, I only play Pizz at present, but fancied trying bowing for odd occasions.  Like the strings for plucking so I’m not in a hurry to change especially at £133 a set 😱

[zbd1960]

Sounds like the string isn't getting to vibrate properly. A new bow will need a lot of rosin on it. One way to check is to look along the length of the hair and then run a finger under teh hair across the width of the hank. You should see a little puff of rosin. Also, a new cake of rosin is resistant to cooperating. If it's still shiny it won't be giving you much rosin. Once the bow is rosined, you don't need to give it that much - just a touch up each time you play.

 

I'm a cellist, not a EUB play, but principles are the same.  

[Bloopdad1]

23 hours ago, zbd1960 said:

Sounds like the string isn't getting to vibrate properly. A new bow will need a lot of rosin on it. One way to check is to look along the length of the hair and then run a finger under teh hair across the width of the hank. You should see a little puff of rosin. Also, a new cake of rosin is resistant to cooperating. If it's still shiny it won't be giving you much rosin. Once the bow is rosined, you don't need to give it that much - just a touch up each time you play.

 

I'm a cellist, not a EUB play, but principles are the same.  

 

 

Umm... Not quite the same. Make sure you're using proper bass rosin (Pops, Nymans, Leatherwood etc etc.) apply the rosin in one rapid continuous "swipe" from frog to tip., the friction will cause the rosin to melt and adhere to the hair. (don't do that upper strings/cello thing where they rapidly move a couple of inches up their bow at a time scraping their hard rosin over the hair!) 

When done properly you can easily see the molten sticky rosin on the hair - apply too much and you'll have a sticky mess that'll rip your strings off the bridge!! (well not quite 😂 but you know what I mean) 😜 

Remember never to touch the hair if you can help it...

Don't tension the bow too tight (difficult to describe in words! Sorry). 

If you're seeing a puff of rosin you're using a hard violin/cello style rosin. 

 

You can certainly bow Dadarios <green ends are the hybrids, blue ends are the pure arco>

Do not move the bow too fast, do not use all the bow at first. 

Add wrist pressure, relax your bow arm, relax your fingers and make sure the bow is 90° to the string and bow 2 to 3" from the bridge. 

Use the passive weight from your upper arm to apply weight onto the string through the bow... Breath out... Relax... Gradually draw the bow slowly across the string. 

 

If you're getting a whistling high harmonic you're either moving too fast, not gripping the string, not enough weight, wrong rosin/not enough or even using poor quality/worn out bow hair. 

 

Although not a pure double bass I could get quite a convincing sound from my NS CR4T and my Yam SLB100 (to about 85% of the sound of my 2 concert basses). 

 

Plucking is about 10% of what a bass can truly do... Arco is where its at! 

Unleash the bow, unleash a lifelong passion! 

 

 

Ex principal bass LSO... A perfect example of what a bass can do. 

 

BTW - Let me know where you can get a set of strings for £130! - they're all around +£200 these days (don't look at Eudoxa - they're £600 a set!!!) 

Remember, Best option is to get a teacher for a couple of lessons just to set you on the straight and narrow. 

[Grahambythesea]

Thank you @Bloopdad1, that’s helpful. I bought Hidesine deluxe all weather bass rosin. It’s still pretty hard, but I have touched it up a bit with a key as someone suggested. However I can’t see rosin on the bow and it doesn’t seem sticky. It’s okay for a very short while, rosin dust appears on the strings and body of my NXT and then seems to go quiet. Do you think it would help to soften the rosin a bit, can one do that in a microwave ( for a very short time obviously).

[zbd1960]

- I wouldn't recommend that. Whilst bass rosin may be a little different from cello rosin, they're not that different. New blocks of rosin are a pain as you need to get rid of the shine so that it grips the bow hair. The rosin I use for cello is relatively soft - Melos. 

[Grahambythesea]

Thanks @zbd1960, so I won’t warm it, but I guess a new bow and new rosin just needs a lot of rubbing! May be like with a lamp, I need to say abracadra. 🤔😆l

[Grahambythesea]

Can I ask another, probably silly question. Does the bow quiver have to be leather, or can my missus knock one up in fabric on her sewing machine?

[NickA]

You might be bowing too near the bridge.  You get more tone from down there but it's much harder to get the note "started". Try just below the end of the fingerboard then progressively closer to the bridge .. you should find a spot that works.

 

Hidersine bass rosin is fine for starters. Nyman is much better but you may not notice the difference until you have your bowing technique sorted a bit.

 

Likewise the strings. I used dAddario helicore hybrids for bow and pluck for years.  I don't rate them by today's standards but they bow just fine and were OK for pizz.  Their "orchestral" strings bow more easily but pluck like damp spaghetti. I Recently switched to Eva Pirazzi strings and got the bridge raised up a bit; bows even better now, but we're talking £210 for "minimal gains" at beginner level.

 

Stick with it.

[Bloopdad1]

On 26/03/2022 at 11:34, Grahambythesea said:

Thank you @Bloopdad1, that’s helpful. I bought Hidesine deluxe all weather bass rosin. It’s still pretty hard, but I have touched it up a bit with a key as someone suggested. However I can’t see rosin on the bow and it doesn’t seem sticky. It’s okay for a very short while, rosin dust appears on the strings and body of my NXT and then seems to go quiet. Do you think it would help to soften the rosin a bit, can one do that in a microwave ( for a very short time obviously).

Hi, yes keep at it. It'll be worth it in the end. 

The Hidersine rosin you mentioned often comes with student bass bundles and is sold in high street music shops. Unfortunately it's very hard and uses the same philosophy of violin/vola/cello rosin - hard, white, dusty, good for lyrical playing with a light touch. 

For around the same price I recommend students use something like Nymans or Pops. It's literally like tar! Super grippy and what many pro bassists use. You can really dig in and it'll practically drag your strings off the bridge! It's a real workout for your right arm.. 

Warning, as many bassists have found don't leave a pot of Nymans out in the sun or near a radiator!! 

(Or in my case, in a bass case in the back of a sunny car! 😂) 

One positive is that if you do wear a groove in the rosin you can easily melt it back level. 

Either way, you can use the Hidersine but you need LOTS of it and have a VERY good bow plus a good technique and light touch. Or use Nymans, apply it using fast, full swipes along the hair to melt it on the bow (don't do the violin/cello hard rosin thing!) and just go for it! 😉 

Most important, have fun! 

[NickA]

On 27/03/2022 at 19:01, Bloopdad1 said:

The Hidersine rosin you mentioned

There are several grades. I've a block of their winter rosin that turns to treacle in summer. I guess the summer version is rock hard and dusty in winter.

 

Nyman ... Seems to work all year.

 

But it's mostly technique ... and practice.

[lowlandtrees]

I would definitely recommend a couple of face to face lessons with a good teacher. The technique for bowing is so subtle that even on-line lessons are limited IMO…. I say that as a mature (ok old git) that has taken up bowing after 10 years pizz. I found it very difficult to find a good teacher. In the end I had to contact various people for recommendations. My teacher is a retired classical pro….might be an idea to contact a nearby orchestra…being a pro musician is virtually impossible these days without supplementing their income with teaching.

[hutchpeter]

Bowing is a mysterious world and my advice is the same as lowland trees above which is to find an experienced classical bassist or teacher to try out your setup and advise you.

 

Remember that the bow is as important as the bass and if you have a hopeless bow no bass will ever work well or sound good. But without experienced help it's very hard to figure out what needs fixing. 

 

Good luck!