Dunk Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 I think the word ‘Upgrade’ has been overused by people who really mean ‘modified’… Modifications of course are fine, some improve things and others don’t, I have no problem with experimenting and trying new things. But ‘upgrade is subjective. My son is currently trying out different pickups on a cheap (£80) Squier affinity strat for example… just for fun and he’s learning about maintaining and repairing his guitar along the way (which is great) but any changes he makes will be a subjective change. For example.. adding a set of £300 pickups to a £250 bass is probably an improvement (although still subjective and not necessarily so) but adding a £30 eBay high mass bridge to a £600 bass may not be.. neither sonically or visually. Beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder (listener). I think my real issue is when it’s used in a ‘for sale’ ad.. if you change something and you like it that’s great and it’s totally your call to do that to your bass… but to call it an ‘upgrade’ and add to the asking price is questionable. Almost always modifications devalue second hand stuff. Certainly if you start modifying a high end bass significantly and irreversibly you will devalue it. My other passion in life is motorcycles and the secondhand bike market is full of the same… stuff listed in for sale ads as ‘upgraded’ when really it’s been ‘modified’.. not always for the better. Just to be clear.. I’m not anti modification.. trying different stuff and experimenting and making small changes can be cool… but modifying isn’t always upgrading.. often the reverse. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nige1968 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Could be worse. Could be "reform", "cut red tape" or "special military operation". 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiram.k.hackenbacker Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 I think there's lot of truth in what you've said there. I've often reconsidered a prospective purchase after reading that parts have been 'upgraded'. Generally, if there is a bass that I'm interested in, it's the original spec I'm expecting, not someone else's idea of what might make it better. There are exceptions of course. I would regard any other bridge on a Gibson bass that came with one of those three point monstrosities as an upgrade. Same goes for earlier Rickenbacker bridges 😂 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Thinking about this the only time I think I put upgrade is if I’ve put a KiOgon loom in say a Squier or Mex Fender, as imo the parts are simply better quality. The rest of the time I think change or modified is probably more accurate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassfinger Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 How about "streamline"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grahambythesea Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 16 minutes ago, Bassfinger said: How about "streamline"? Will it make you play faster? 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAYNESWORLD Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 I have spent time and money replacing pickups(under licence Bart’s) and factory installed preamp to. USA Bart’s and East preamp. Is it better than stock without a doubt. But here’s the thing I have another bass same spec under license Bart’s with factory pre amp that sounds just as good. Only real difference except shape is pick-up placement. To be honest we tend to do all these changes to satisfy an itch we get from time to time. IMHO in a live situation for a lot of us playing pubs and clubs all the nuances we strive for get lost in the mix especially if most of the sound is coming from a back line. Not to mention the guitarists trying to be heard above everything regardless of composition or a keyboard players left hand playing notes lower than a snakes kneecaps.. I’ve reconciled myself that if I play the correct notes and the audience and myself can here then in the right place jobs done. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hz Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dunk said: I think the word ‘Upgrade’ has been overused by people who really mean ‘modified’… Modifications of course are fine, some improve things and others don’t, I have no problem with experimenting and trying new things. But ‘upgrade is subjective. My son is currently trying out different pickups on a cheap (£80) Squier affinity strat for example… just for fun and he’s learning about maintaining and repairing his guitar along the way (which is great) but any changes he makes will be a subjective change. For example.. adding a set of £300 pickups to a £250 bass is probably an improvement (although still subjective and not necessarily so) but adding a £30 eBay high mass bridge to a £600 bass may not be.. neither sonically or visually. Beauty is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder (listener). I think my real issue is when it’s used in a ‘for sale’ ad.. if you change something and you like it that’s great and it’s totally your call to do that to your bass… but to call it an ‘upgrade’ and add to the asking price is questionable. Almost always modifications devalue second hand stuff. Certainly if you start modifying a high end bass significantly and irreversibly you will devalue it. My other passion in life is motorcycles and the secondhand bike market is full of the same… stuff listed in for sale ads as ‘upgraded’ when really it’s been ‘modified’.. not always for the better. Just to be clear.. I’m not anti modification.. trying different stuff and experimenting and making small changes can be cool… but modifying isn’t always upgrading.. often the reverse. I second all of this. My absolute #1 pet peeve (however petty!) in the used market. Like you, I'm not against it at all (I've modified a few basses myself) but upgrade is such an subjective statement. Edited March 14, 2022 by 40hz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 Something tells me you never held a job in sales. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 From an engineering perspective a Babicz or KSM bridge is probably an upgrade on a standard Fender but you'll probably not notice the difference in audio .... despite the hype. As for pickups, most are different flavours rather than upgrades. Is it all worth it? Well, my Squier VM jazz is certainly a better bass for having custom pups, graph tech nut (surprisingly good), and KSM bridge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted March 14, 2022 Share Posted March 14, 2022 (edited) Squier pickups -> SD QPs Knackered original pots -> KiOgon loom with series/parallel switch Original tuner -> Hipshot drop D tuner All upgrades imho Don't get upset though, 'cos it's never going to appear in an advert until someone prises it from my cold, dead, rigor-mortised hands 😀 Edited March 14, 2022 by Norris 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 It's only a modification if it can't be readily put back to stock. Stating as such it is fair warning to the buyer to consider the value to them and potential resale. An upgrade may or may not involve modification. Again the buyer is free to consider the value. It's a major cottage industry swapping pickups. You'll have to come up with a new word that isn't modification or upgrading. 'Swapping' implies like for like with no increase of value, so that's out. Guess what, sellers figured out long ago the best word for it is in fact upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Norris said: Squier pickups -> SD QPs Knackered original pots -> KiOgon loom with series/parallel switch Original tuner -> Hipshot drop D tuner All upgrades imho This hits the nail on the head. I would tend to agree that these are upgrades but, for example, if someone else has no interest in Drop D, then that is not an upgrade, and it's possible that someone prefers the original Squier pickups to the SDs. The idea of modifications is that it tailors the bass to your preferences, but it's important to recognise that this might be different other peoples preferences. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunk Posted March 15, 2022 Author Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said: It's only a modification if it can't be readily put back to stock. Stating as such it is fair warning to the buyer to consider the value to them and potential resale. An upgrade may or may not involve modification. Again the buyer is free to consider the value. Yes, you’re right, there’s definitely a distinction between ‘bolt on’ removable modifications and permanent alterations (routing etc) although even a change of tuners is likely to leave ghost holes. Although it’s also true to say that it’s rare that the original parts get included in the sale, more often than not, so unless you (as the buyer) are prepared to go and source original parts to restore it back to standard you’re still left with a modified bass. As I say, I’m not totally against modifying.. I just dislike calling every single alteration an upgrade. Incidentally I also loathe the phrase ‘essential mods’… as I said, I’m into motorcycles and one of the most common questions on every bike forum these days is, “Hi I’m new here, what are the essential mods for this bike?”….. it drives me nuts! A new word… hmmmm… perhaps ‘ruinated’ or ‘meddlef****d’….? Edited March 15, 2022 by Dunk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 14 minutes ago, Dunk said: Yes, you’re right, there’s definitely a distinction between ‘bolt on’ removable modifications and permanent alterations (routing etc) although even a change of tuners is likely to leave ghost holes. Although it’s also true to say that it’s rare that the original parts get included in the sale, more often than not, so unless you (as the buyer) are prepared to go and source original parts to restore it back to standard you’re still left with a modified bass. As I say, I’m not totally against modifying.. I just dislike calling every single alteration an upgrade. Incidentally I also loathe the phrase ‘essential mods’… as I said, I’m into motorcycles and one of the most common questions on every bike forum these days is, “Hi I’m new here, what are the essential mods for this bike?”….. it drives me nuts! A new word… hmmmm… perhaps ‘ruinated’ or ‘meddlef****d’….? Easy solution is avoid reading classifieds for non stock items and don't read forums dedicated to improvements of stock consumer items. 'Poof' no more unnecessary grief over what someone else is doing with their stuff or what they call improving that you don't. Simples. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 37 minutes ago, Count Bassy said: but it's important to recognise that this might be different other peoples preferences In the case of selling their precious they are appealing to someone with similar preferences. If they are skiiting about it on a forum it's because they are proud of their efforts. Either way they are right. So your complaint comes down to semantics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 16 hours ago, Dunk said: I think my real issue is when it’s used in a ‘for sale’ ad.. if you change something and you like it that’s great and it’s totally your call to do that to your bass… but to call it an ‘upgrade’ and add to the asking price is questionable. Almost always modifications devalue second hand stuff. Certainly if you start modifying a high end bass significantly and irreversibly you will devalue it. You can divide it into two camps though... there are some players who typically will make their income from playing and know *exactly* what they want. I've a guitarist friend and any new guitar would go to a luthier to get the neck reshaped to his preference and his preferred pickups put in. It's similar to a builder preferring Makita over Dewalt or a designer preferring a Mac to a PC - not nesessrally "better", but their preference... Then you get the GAS fuelled gear monkeys (erm most of us lot?) who want to try things, might buy and sell a fair few instruments and have justified to themselves that £400 on pickups makes a big difference. The phycology of it seems to be both posting on forums telling other people how great their £400 pickups are, and then want others to agree with them when they come to sell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I think there's a big difference between value upgrades and preference upgrades. I've made a few changes to my Sire V7. I replaced the stock heavyweight tuners with Hipshots. This IMO is a value upgrade which would add a wee bit to the resale. I've also bought a replacement bridge that I will be fitting -- it's not a big flash Bada$$ or anything, but it's a quick change top-loader type which I prefer to the standard BBOT-esque affair. It won't necessarily add value, but it's a definite preference upgrade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40hz Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I think, personally, (YMMV etc) the value is in something being standard, or at least retaining the original bits to be able to be put back to standard. When I buy a bass, I want it exactly as the maker intended - for better or worse! I (and completely accept there are some that see this different, but in the interest of opinions) wouldn't pay any more for a modded bass. I'd pay less (unless the OG bits were kept) as it's someone else's preferences. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 Further to my original post, re any new Precisions I get I do the following: US made I add A String Retainer Mex made I add North West Gtrs Hi-mass bridge Hipshot 3 way string retainer Additionally if the Mex is for overseas flying gigs I’ll get the nut changed to a Graphtec one and change the tuners to Hipshots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 1 hour ago, 40hz said: I think, personally, (YMMV etc) the value is in something being standard, or at least retaining the original bits to be able to be put back to standard. When I buy a bass, I want it exactly as the maker intended - for better or worse! I think therein lies one of the reasons for modding, 'as the maker intended' for mass produced instruments usually means 'how cheap can I make this bass and still charge X amount'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diskwave Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 (edited) Pickups, bridges, electrics unless for eg you have a real noise problem ...out in the mosh pit or studio make not a jot of difference by the time ur signals gone thru an amp, or sound guy or producers twiddlings and found its way into the brains of the music loving public Aftermarket bridges make no discernable changes to anything other than the way you feel. I'll even fit the vintage Fender scroll bridge to my basses cause that crude simplicity is actually real good...looks cool too Best upgrade there is for bass playing happiness, and by the way its totally free............Practise. Edited March 20, 2022 by greavesbass 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewblack Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 The op is spot on. I grind my teeth when I see overpriced basses justified because someone has changed some part or other It's just changed. Not improved. You may think it's better, but that's just your opinion. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 I quite like “bastardised” 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 The thing that makes me laugh the most is the "I took the £300 Aguilars out and put in a £300 set of Nordy's as an upgrade. So the price is £300 higher because of it" "Are you including the Aguilars?" "No" 🤡 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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