‘Upgrade’ - overused and meaningless?

[TimR]

On 15/03/2022 at 01:25, Downunderwonder said:

It's only a modification if it can't be readily put back to stock. Stating as such it is fair warning to the buyer to consider the value to them and potential resale.

 

An upgrade may or may not involve modification. Again the buyer is free to consider the value.

 

It's a major cottage industry swapping pickups. You'll have to come up with a new word that isn't modification or upgrading. 'Swapping' implies like for like with no increase of value, so that's out. Guess what, sellers figured out long ago the best word for it is in fact upgrade.

 

I agree. 

Modify - drill or cut or otherwise somehow permanently change the original item.

Swap - change something that may make something look or sound better or different. 

Upgrade - change something for something that's better quality and more reliable.

 

I've upgraded the machineheads on my bass from cheap Chinese aluminum machineheads to Gotoh machineheads. 

 

I've fitted straplocks. Which are not permanent, so neither a modification or upgrade. 

 

[Count Bassy]

1 hour ago, Nail Soup said:

I quite like “bastardised”

Basstardised, surely?

[Monkey Steve]

I always remember my first trip to Denmark St to sell a guitar, many, many moons ago.  A very good lesson from one of the assistants, who explained that while he could see that I had put better components on the Gibson Les Paul (really just my preference, whether sound or cosmetic), you're never getting any more money for doing it, and often you'll get less for it not being "original".

 

I was reminded of that when I was window shopping on Reverb - someone was trying to sell a quite limited guitar (also a Les Paul by coincidence) and he'd changed the pickups, the knobs, and swapped the case, all to make it look and feel more vintage.  It was listed for about a grand less than one without the "upgrades", and it's been listed for a while with no takers.

 

I'm happy to make changes to anything that I think is a keeper (and usually keep the parts, just in case it isn't).  And I'm generally in agreement with the OP - the one that makes me laugh is when the ad assures the potential buyers that any "upgrades" have been professionally installed, which apparently is worth paying more for than having soldered it correctly yourself

[NancyJohnson]

I've never changed a set of machines on a bass, a couple of d-tuners.  Dunlop Straploks on everything (if I'm buying anything sight unseen, I always order some at the same time).  Thunderbirds, I'd always change the bridge (initially Supertones, then the more palm-friendly Babicz).  Anything else changed is by necessity rather than desire.

 

There used to be this argument (late 70s) that changing the original PAFs on a Les Paul to DiMarzios would add the the value of the instrument pending any resale.  Perhaps that was the case then - very much a matter of out with the old, in with the new - I think we all know that now originality is key to getting top dollar.

[TimR]

21 minutes ago, NancyJohnson said:

I've never changed a set of machines on a bass

 

Just to clarify. The E machinehead broke. Twice. The original and then the stock replacement both broke. 

 

I thought it wise to change/upgrade the whole set. 

[fretmeister]

I've changed machineheads on many basses, always to get the weight down.

 

Swapping from large plate tuners to Hipshot ultralites can lower the weight by half a pound, and when that is right at the end of the neck the balance benefits are massive.

I really don't understand why many makers keep using unnecessarily heavy tuners.

[Guest]

On 16/03/2022 at 12:44, Monkey Steve said:

The one that makes me laugh is when the ad assures the potential buyers that any "upgrades" have been professionally installed, which apparently is worth paying more for than having soldered it correctly yourself

 

If the replacement pg on the bass sat next to me had been professionally installed, I wouldn't have had to have it professionally sorted out 🙄

[tauzero]

5 hours ago, fretmeister said:

I've changed machineheads on many basses, always to get the weight down.

 

Swapping from large plate tuners to Hipshot ultralites can lower the weight by half a pound, and when that is right at the end of the neck the balance benefits are massive.

I really don't understand why many makers keep using unnecessarily heavy tuners.

 

I don't know why many makers keep putting those ridiculous heavy headstocks on their basses. Pointless balance-wrecking lumps of wood.

[Bassfinger]

17 hours ago, fretmeister said:

 

I really don't understand why many makers keep using unnecessarily heavy tuners.

Because there are deep chested, broad shouldered players, over whose rippling muscled form the strap fits in perfect geometry so they never suffer neck dive?  Aside from the rippling muscled bit, that's me.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Bassfinger
Felxing in the mirror

[Rich]

I did perform a few mods/changes on my Wal Pro 2E... fitted a D-tuner, fitted Schaller straplock buttons, swapped the pickup toggle switch for a rotary one. I kept the original parts and these changes have now been reversed (apart from the strap buttons, and it'd take seconds to change those), and it's back to factory stock. Many years ago I did contemplate having the pickups and electrics changed to Custom spec, I'm glad I didn't. 

[dave_bass5]

On 16/03/2022 at 09:55, stewblack said:

The op is spot on.

I grind my teeth when I see overpriced basses justified because someone has changed some part or other 

It's just changed. Not improved. You may think it's better, but that's just your opinion.

Agree, and also adding a bit more to the price because its recently had a ‘professional set up’ 😏. 

 

[TimR]

Don't underestimate the number of people who think professional is better than what they can do, so must be better than what you can do. 

 

My guitarist has recommended his tech to me several times for me to get a 'proper' set up as 'it's a complicated thing to get right'. These are the kind of people who call out the AA to change a wheel on their car. 

[Lozz196]

1 hour ago, TimR said:

Don't underestimate the number of people who think professional is better than what they can do, so must be better than what you can do. 

 

My guitarist has recommended his tech to me several times for me to get a 'proper' set up as 'it's a complicated thing to get right'. These are the kind of people who call out the AA to change a wheel on their car. 

I’m so inept I consider calling them out to put in diesel….

[dave_bass5]

2 hours ago, TimR said:

Don't underestimate the number of people who think professional is better than what they can do, so must be better than what you can do. 

 

My guitarist has recommended his tech to me several times for me to get a 'proper' set up as 'it's a complicated thing to get right'. These are the kind of people who call out the AA to change a wheel on their car. 

Yep. Ive come across it quite a few times. If someone is a ‘pro’ then they know more than i do……..apparently. Just because you get paid to do something does not automatically make you better than those that dont. 

I was in a discussion on FB earlier this week in a keyboard group. We were talking about the quality of piano's on a particular synth. I said i loved them, they just needed a bit of tweaking (because thats what a programable synth is all about) to get them just perfect for me. Someone commented that ‘this shouldn’t  be necessary, as they were programmed by professionals, and who are we to think we can do better). I left that conversation with a smile. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by dave_bass5

[Guest]

6 hours ago, TimR said:

These are the kind of people who call out the AA to change a wheel on their car. 

 

Probably the same fools who pay to hear professional musicians when perfect enjoyable free entertainment is available at any pub's open mic night

[Lozz196]

5 hours ago, dave_bass5 said:

Yep. Ive come across it quite a few times. If someone is a ‘pro’ then they know more than i do……..apparently. Just because you get paid to do something does not automatically make you better than those that dont. 

Spot on, as the saying goes professionals built The Titanic, but amateurs built The Ark.

[Dan Dare]

22 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Spot on, as the saying goes professionals built The Titanic, but amateurs built The Ark.

 

And there were only 8 of those amateurs, too. Must be true...

[TimR]

1 hour ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

Probably the same fools who pay to hear professional musicians when perfect enjoyable free entertainment is available at any pub's open mic night

 

I don't understand that analagy. 

 

Changing your own wheel.

Putting up your own shelf or curtain pole.

Bleeding your radiators.

Setting up your bass.

 

Are all very simple jobs. 

 

Going to listen to a band vs playing in a band, are, I'd suggest, a completely different level.

 

Otherwise, I'll just hand my bass to the first punter who enters the pub and tell them to get on with it....

[Geek99]

On 14/03/2022 at 23:02, Norris said:

Squier pickups -> SD QPs

Knackered original pots -> KiOgon loom with series/parallel switch

Original tuner -> Hipshot drop D tuner

 

All upgrades imho

 

Don't get upset though, 'cos it's never going to appear in an advert until someone prises it from my cold, dead, rigor-mortised hands 😀

Assume we are talking p bass special here, Norris?

[Geek99]

8 hours ago, TimR said:

 

 

My guitarist has recommended his tech to me several times for me to get a 'proper' set up as 'it's a complicated thing to get right'.

That’s a guitard though, the bar is lower for them .. No joined-up, plastic cutlery, ketchup with everything and bed at 7 with some milk

[Teyeplayer]

My current pet hate is the use of mods/‘upgrades’ as a reason to uncharge on a second hand guitar or bass ‘because it owes me X amount’.  
 

I’ve never seen a change to original spec as a significant problem (unless it’s the form of sausage fingered non-reversible mod found on eBay), a swap of pickups or pots really isn’t that big a deal. However, there is definitely a current fad of trying to charge closer to the price of a new one because a few changes have been made. Post-covid inflation of secondhand instruments has severely impinged the revolving door of GAS. 

[Downunderwonder]

29 minutes ago, Teyeplayer said:

My current pet hate is the use of mods/‘upgrades’ as a reason to uncharge on a second hand guitar or bass ‘because it owes me X amount’.  
 

I’ve never seen a change to original spec as a significant problem (unless it’s the form of sausage fingered non-reversible mod found on eBay), a swap of pickups or pots really isn’t that big a deal. However, there is definitely a current fad of trying to charge closer to the price of a new one because a few changes have been made. Post-covid inflation of secondhand instruments has severely impinged the revolving door of GAS. 

Suggest you look at the item and the price and deduce your BP immediately rising before avoiding that fate by moving on without clicking.

[tegs07]

45 minutes ago, Teyeplayer said:

Post-covid inflation of secondhand instruments has severely impinged the revolving door of GAS. 

I’m not sure this is limited to second hand instruments more of a fundamental restructuring of the global economy. Inflation was being artificially reported and central banks have been in denial for a decade. A 1970’s style inflationary spike was inevitable before Covid and now thanks to Putin it will be turbo charged. Bit off topic sorry. The good news is that there are a lot of great instruments at reasonable prices out there. Personally I’ve never been attracted to “new” for the sake of it. If I can buy a well loved instrument locally that has been well set up and has better pickups and hardware than it left the factory with it is more appealing than waiting months for arrival, messing about waiting for couriers etc.

Edited March 25, 2022 by tegs07

[Rayman]

I’ve wasted a lot of money on pointless “upgrades” over the years, usually moving the gear on anyway at a massive financial loss.

 

In my opinion it’s almost always a waste of time and money, and like someone pointed out, an upgrade is a matter of personal opinion anyway. Most basses are just fine as they are.

 

 I recently restored a cheap P bass, only replacing the knackered EQ because it didn’t work, and for no other reason. The stock “cheap” pickup sounds fantastic with the new EQ, and banging in an expensive replacement would have been pointless.

 

Modding a bass you love, that you’ll never sell, to tweak it to how you want it is fine, but honestly, how many of us move the gear on anyway? Loads, and asking an inflated price to cover your cost is optimistic at best. Most people will want to do their own mods if the bass needs it.

 

My point……. move gear on in stock condition and let the new owner decide for themselves.

[tegs07]

47 minutes ago, Rayman said:

I’ve wasted a lot of money on pointless “upgrades” over the years, usually moving the gear on anyway at a massive financial loss.

 

In my opinion it’s almost always a waste of time and money, and like someone pointed out, an upgrade is a matter of personal opinion anyway. Most basses are just fine as they are.

 

 I recently restored a cheap P bass, only replacing the knackered EQ because it didn’t work, and for no other reason. The stock “cheap” pickup sounds fantastic with the new EQ, and banging in an expensive replacement would have been pointless.

 

Modding a bass you love, that you’ll never sell, to tweak it to how you want it is fine, but honestly, how many of us move the gear on anyway? Loads, and asking an inflated price to cover your cost is optimistic at best. Most people will want to do their own mods if the bass needs it.

 

My point……. move gear on in stock condition and let the new owner decide for themselves.

I guess it’s all about how you do things. In the past I’ve sold stock Squire machine heads on a used bass for £25-30 on eBay/Gumtree and bought used Hipshot or Schaller ones for £50ish and stock Squire pickups for £30ish and bought used Dimarzio Model P/EMG GZR/Tonerider for £60ish so spending £50 or £60 in total. Even after doing so as the bass was used to start with it’s still a couple of hundred quid cheaper than a stock new one.  Money well spent for me but others will have a different point of view.