Improving left hand strength/dexterity?

[Rich44]

I've been practising consistently for about a 10months now, but I still struggle with left hand technique. Everyday I do the usual warmups suggested by most textbooks, and I do things like these every day for a good 20mins before playing:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulljTV7X2jc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulljTV7X2jc[/url]

My strength in my little finger has improved very "slightly", but I still really struggle with it. Its not just the strength though, I just can't get my left hand fingers to move fluid and quick enough. I see most players able to dance around the fretboard, but I still have to go awkwardly from string to string, it feels very clunky and unnatural. The main problem is with the third and fourth fingers, and especially when playing fifths and octaves (on multiple strings etc).

I don't know really, does anyone have any suggestions? I've tried most things, my positioning is fine (wrist/thumb etc), try to relax as much as possible. Just want to be able to see improvement really.

[jakenewmanbass]

I'm afraid I think the technique of the guy in the vid is not something to aspire to. When using his little finger he makes a movement of over an inch between playing a note and then using his third finger and when doing so curling his little finger up and completely moving it away from the fret board, you will struggle achieve speed and dexterity with that kind of movement, it should be tiny movements and when the finger is not in use it should hover milimetres above it's station (based on a one finger per fret principle)

Aspire to minimal movement when fretting and when you take your finger off the notes leave them very very close to where they would naturally sit ready to play the next note, it's the control of having your hand in that position and at the same time realxed that takes a bit of mastering.

A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing, you've done the right thing asking here...

Edited April 10, 2009 by jakesbass

[Simon]

When I was learning I found perseverance was the key to improving my finger strength.

I have a few exercises on [url="http://www.thebassment.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=9"]The Bassment[/url]. And i'll be adding a few more next week, including one I saw on a John Patitucci video once, called the Spider. Very good left hand exercise!

[Adrenochrome]

Get a Powerball.

[The Funk]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='459397' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:02 PM']it should be tiny movements and when the finger is not in use it should hover milimetres above it's station (based on a one finger per fret principle)

Aspire to minimal movement when fretting and when you take your finger off the notes leave them very very close to where they would naturally sit ready to play the next note, it's the control of having your hand in that position and at the same time realxed that takes a bit of mastering.[/quote]

Agree with Jake, except that I would not advocate the use of one finger per fret below the fifth fret. There, I would recommend index, middle, and ring/little combined.

[Rich44]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='459397' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:02 PM']Aspire to minimal movement when fretting and when you take your finger off the notes leave them very very close to where they would naturally sit ready to play the next note, it's the control of having your hand in that position and at the same time realxed that takes a bit of mastering.[/quote]

Thanks, I'll try that. I think the problem I find is combining both having the fingers close to the strings at all times AND still having the ability to do one finger per fret. I always end up lifting my fingers off to "stretch" for finger-per-fret. I'm hopefully downsizing to a short-scale soon so hopefully that'll help.


[quote name='Simon' post='459402' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:17 PM']I have a few exercises on [url="http://www.thebassment.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=9"]The Bassment[/url]. And i'll be adding a few more next week, including one I saw on a John Patitucci video once, called the Spider. Very good left hand exercise![/quote]

I do the spider occasionally, and alot of other similar exercises. Like I've said they've helped slightly, but just wanted to know if there was anything else to do the rest.


[quote name='Adrenochrome' post='459405' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:23 PM']Get a Powerball.[/quote]

I did have one, but I lost the cord. I wasn't keen on it though, and its far too noisy for student accomodation! I've used Gripmasters etc too, but found they were a bit gimmicky/just playing was better.

[endorka]

[quote name='Rich44' post='459507' date='Apr 10 2009, 06:28 PM']Thanks, I'll try that. I think the problem I find is combining both having the fingers close to the strings at all times AND still having the ability to do one finger per fret. I always end up lifting my fingers off to "stretch" for finger-per-fret. I'm hopefully downsizing to a short-scale soon so hopefully that'll help.[/quote]

In my opinion, getting a short scale bass is not the best solution to the problem you have, for many reasons, not least because it will severely limit your choice of instrument and compromise the sound quality - long strings are where it is at for bass guitar. Think of the sound of a grand piano versus that of an upright. The Funk's recommedation;

"...I would recommend index, middle, and ring/little combined."

...is the most versatile (and cheapest!) solution to your problem. It's how double bass players have done it for many years. Very few people can properly manage "finger-per-fret" properly in the lower registers of the bass guitar, and even those who do often opt for the using the ring/little finger combined to grab octaves.

Thoughtless promotion of the one-finger-per-fret technique is something that has baffled me for a long time; I've no idea why this idea persists when it is genuinely applicable to so few people. Sure, some can use it - and do so effortlessly - but in my experience, most cannot use it in the lower register of the instrument.

Jennifer

[Rich44]

[quote name='endorka' post='459552' date='Apr 10 2009, 07:28 PM']In my opinion, getting a short scale bass is not the best solution to the problem you have, for many reasons, not least because it will severely limit your choice of instrument and compromise the sound quality - long strings are where it is at for bass guitar. Think of the sound of a grand piano versus that of an upright. The Funk's recommedation;

"...I would recommend index, middle, and ring/little combined."

...is the most versatile (and cheapest!) solution to your problem. It's how double bass players have done it for many years. Very few people can properly manage "finger-per-fret" properly in the lower registers of the bass guitar, and even those who do often opt for the using the ring/little finger combined to grab octaves.

Thoughtless promotion of the one-finger-per-fret technique is something that has baffled me for a long time; I've no idea why this idea persists when it is genuinely applicable to so few people. Sure, some can use it - and do so effortlessly - but in my experience, most cannot use it in the lower register of the instrument.

Jennifer[/quote]

I use simandl on frets 1-5 and with octaves/fifths generally, but I always get muddled say if playing something between 2-8, where a switch in styles is needed. Yeh, I guess its a common problem, the only reason I was considering shortscale was to make playing a bit more comfortable/less painful on the lower end, my hands have stretched alot since starting but I think i've maxed out. I guess its just something I'll have to keep practising with though.

[endorka]

[quote name='Rich44' post='459617' date='Apr 10 2009, 08:54 PM']I use simandl on frets 1-5 and with octaves/fifths generally, but I always get muddled say if playing something between 2-8, where a switch in styles is needed. Yeh, I guess its a common problem, the only reason I was considering shortscale was to make playing a bit more comfortable/less painful on the lower end, my hands have stretched alot since starting but I think i've maxed out. I guess its just something I'll have to keep practising with though. [/quote]

When you mention things like stretching and pain in your hands, I'd say that's a cause for concern, something almost certainly technique based. On a normal scale bass, you should be able to finger frets 1,2 and 3 using Simandl style 1-2-4 fingers without much of a stretch at all; the fingers should only be slightly further apart than they are when the hand is relaxed, no need for contortions at all. I find it best to place the fingertips just behind each fret.

Pain is a bad sign, and often a sign that you are not using the hand efficiently, and perhaps what is causing this is also causing the awkwardness you feel.

Jennifer

[jakenewmanbass]

I agree with The Funk and Jennifer re one finger per fret, I employ it where comfortable but I'm just as happy to combine 1 2 4 and 1 2 3 4 slipping between the two without much thought. (probably as I am a double bass player)
I should have been clearer regarding that in my original post.

P.S I have very long fingers and, in fact can achieve 1 2 3 4 on double bass although I don't use it as I was taught traditionally.

Edited April 10, 2009 by jakesbass

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Simon' post='459402' date='Apr 10 2009, 04:17 PM']including one I saw on a John Patitucci video once, called the Spider. Very good left hand exercise![/quote]

+1 for the spider, not only builds strength but independence too, and in fact gives equal excercise to each finger so over time the weaker fingers will begin to compete for strength with the stronger.

[xilddx]

This looks useful ..

[url="http://www.activemusician.com/The-Spider-Exercise--t13i80"]http://www.activemusician.com/The-Spider-Exercise--t13i80[/url]

[Simon]

For anyone reading this and interested in the Spider exercise I referred to, you can find it here:

[url="http://www.thebassment.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=9"]The Spider[/url]

[TomorrowDreamer]

Ive been doing most of these exercises for quite a while and my right hand can do most of them perfectly, however my pinky finger on my left hand couldnt do some of the exercises or bend properly. So i went to the doctor to ask about this as i wanted to see if something was wrong with my finger and something was wrong with it! Years ago i had broken the finger and the muscles hadnt realigned properly so it was a simple task of rebreaking the finger and getting the muscle back in place. Yes ouch but it has worked

[XB26354]

[quote name='Simon' post='465213' date='Apr 17 2009, 04:36 PM']For anyone reading this and interested in the Spider exercise I referred to, you can find it here:

[url="http://www.thebassment.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8&Itemid=9"]The Spider[/url][/quote]

I think you'll find that:
Major 5ths are actually called Perfect 5ths
Major 8ths are actually called Perfect Octaves
Major 11ths are actually called Perfect 11ths

[Bilbo]

Patience!

10 months is not as long as you think! If you are still having trouble after 2 or 3 years, then maybe you need some other help! In the meantime, don't fret

I tend towards three fingers at the lower end of the neck although can move to 1234 if the line demands it (which is not that often). If you are low on the neck, the options created by open strings are greater and you can use them to make stuff happen. In reality, with practice you can move from fretting a low F to a high Eb without it sounding like there is a gap between the notes. Its a matter of phrasing.

[Eight]

Does anyone have any good exercises for creating independence between pinkies 2 and 3?

E.g. on this exercise (one finger per fret - trying to keep all strings pressed as much as possible)

-------------4---4-------------
---------3-----------3---------
-----2-------------------2-----
- 1--------------------------1-

On the lower frets, I struggle to place finger 3 in position without it dragging finger 2 over the fret wire. Any ideas? Or is this anatomical weakness.

Edit: just noticed I can do it fine descending. So its just the ascending part I'm struggling with.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Eight

[dlloyd]

[quote name='Rich44' post='459617' date='Apr 10 2009, 08:54 PM']Yeh, I guess its a common problem, the only reason I was considering shortscale was to make playing a bit more comfortable/less painful on the lower end, my hands have stretched alot since starting but I think i've maxed out.[/quote]

Where is the pain?

[Rich44]

[quote name='dlloyd' post='470583' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:21 PM']Where is the pain?[/quote]

In between the fingers, particularly in the upper palm (above the head-line). I personally think its due to overstretching; I do lots of fingerhand warmups though, and like I said, I try to use simandl as much as possible. I occasionally get pain at hte base of my hand/wrist, I do monitor wrist/thumg posture, and its not too bad.

[velvetkevorkian]

[quote name='Eight' post='470570' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:12 PM']Does anyone have any good exercises for creating independence between pinkies 2 and 3?[/quote]
I only have 2 pinkies
[quote name='Eight' post='470570' date='Apr 23 2009, 12:12 PM']E.g. on this exercise (one finger per fret - trying to keep all strings pressed as much as possible)

-------------4---4-------------
---------3-----------3---------
-----2-------------------2-----
- 1--------------------------1-

On the lower frets, I struggle to place finger 3 in position without it dragging finger 2 over the fret wire. Any ideas? Or is this anatomical weakness.

Edit: just noticed I can do it fine descending. So its just the ascending part I'm struggling with.[/quote]
Assuming you mean fingers 2 and 3, I think it is just a matter or practising exercises like the one you've tabbed there- the 3rd finger is the hardest to get going independently but there's no magic bullet- just play shedloads of chromatic 1 finger per fret exercises.

If you want some serious left hand muscle try Bass Fitness by Josquin De Pres (I think)- its a whole book of this kind of thing. Enjoyable? Musical? Not really. Its the bass equivalent of weight training.
Alternatively, just try
-------------4---1-------------
---------3-----------2---------
-----2-------------------3-----
- 1--------------------------4-

up and down the neck.

[Lemuel Beam]

+1 for the bass fitness book. Also, Gary Willis has some great exercises for finger independence/strength in his "101 tips for bassists" - one of the best bass related books I ever bought..

LB

[Eight]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='471048' date='Apr 23 2009, 07:56 PM']I only have 2 pinkies [/quote]
Fair point - I have a horrible tendency to use pinkie as a generic term for finger; even though I know it's wrong.

Thank you for the book recommendation and exercise tip - I'll try both.

[Rich44]

I think I figured out where some of the wrist pain is coming from. When fretting with the first three fingers I can fret the E string fine, and keep good posture in my wrist.

However, because my little finger (pinky) is so much smaller, I can only fret the D/Amax string with my wrist straight, and have to bend wrist to reach fretting the E string. I don't suppose theres much I can do about this, is there? Its already a supposed thin necked bass.