Why change tuners?

[LITTLEWING]

I’m not being funny by any means, but why do people automatically swap to more expensive tuners?

if they’re cheap and nasty or if one has broken, fair enough, but in forty years of owning and playing a fair few basses I have never felt the need to change them. They’ve always held their tune and only need a tiny tweak when the strings obviously stretch after two hours of vigorous gigging or the neck has gone out a little either way in the heat or cold. I can also see the possibility of a lighter set to alleviate head dive.

Serious questions - does a more expensive set add more tone etc. to a bass like a decent bridge does?

Are they actually easier to turn than a set on a sub £500 bass?

Does a decent set help to eliminate ‘dead’ spot notes?

 

Honestly curious, not taking the mick anywhere at all, just wondering what the benefits could possibly be.

 

[Lozz196]

I changed a set on my Mex Precision, from stock to Hipshots. This is the bass that I’ll do flying gigs with so I want to be sure of good tuning stability for the slackening of the strings for the flight/retuning for the gig. I’ve also had the nut changed to a Graphtec one to help on this. But if I were only likely to be doing UK gigs with it I’d have left it stock. 

[PaulThePlug]

Even cheap tuners can be improved and it's realy easy on Open Types.

I take 'em apart and give the worms 'n cogs a wire woolin' to remove any rough edges of plating... reassemble with a dab of coppa slip, which is a little abrasive and give em a few good turns, to help em mesh. then clean that off and apply a dab of vaseline. Quick 5 min job on each machine head can realy improve the feel. Sealed types get a little squirt of spray grease in the tuner stem shaft gap...

And a lot of tuning issues can be down to sticky nuts!.. So some pencil lead applied to the nut slots...

Edited March 18, 2022 by PaulThePlug

[Dood]

Put a set of Gotoh Resolite GB640 tuning keys on any bass and I would be very surprised if you couldn't notice a difference. They are the most accurate, silky smooth tuning keys I've ever had the pleasure of using. The GB350's are ace as well. Rock solid and highly recommended.

[ped]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

I changed a set on my Mex Precision, from stock to Hipshots. This is the bass that I’ll do flying gigs with so I want to be sure of good tuning stability for the slackening of the strings for the flight/retuning for the gig. I’ve also had the nut changed to a Graphtec one to help on this. But if I were only likely to be doing UK gigs with it I’d have left it stock. 

Why do you slacken the strings for flying? I know lots of people do it but it’s not good imo unless you’re loosening the truss rod too. Better to keep it in tune and in balance (sorry to nitpick!)

[Ed_S]

I've put Gotoh GB707s on a couple of non-premium Ibanez SRs that didn't strictly need them. They're drop-in replacements, they're relatively inexpensive, and I just think they look and feel nicer than the originals. They're also a bit smoother to turn, and the posts are wider than on the originals which I prefer when restringing. I guess they should be more accurate and might be a little more stable than the originals, but that's about it. Same as when I replace bridges, I'm looking for improvements in one or more of aesthetics, playing comfort and ease of adjustability; I have no expectation of improved tone.

[Lozz196]

5 hours ago, ped said:

Why do you slacken the strings for flying? I know lots of people do it but it’s not good imo unless you’re loosening the truss rod too. Better to keep it in tune and in balance (sorry to nitpick!)

Thanks for the tip, I wasn’t aware of that, certainly will make life easier 👍

[zbd1960]

I haven't personally done it yet, but basic answer will be engineering. More expensive ones should be better made, meaning that they should fit and operate better. Precisely why (apart from aesthetics) you buy a£2k bass over a £500 one.  

[Saul Panzer]

Before selling my Harley Benton I was planning to change the tuners, they had at least 1mm of movement each way before any change in tension even occurred and would randomly wind/unwind the string faster or slower when tuning.
I tried fiddling with the accessible screws to see if I could tighten things but nothing helped, there was a disconnect between what I did and any resulting change.
They'd eventually do the job but it was always a case of "left, left, left, too far left, right a bit, bit more, bit more, now it's worse, left, left, perfect..hope it holds for a while" now repeat for all strings.
Not an issue I have with my other basses.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Saul Panzer

[casapete]

12 hours ago, LITTLEWING said:

I’m not being funny by any means, but why do people automatically swap to more expensive tuners?

if they’re cheap and nasty or if one has broken, fair enough, but in forty years of owning and playing a fair few basses I have never felt the need to change them. They’ve always held their tune and only need a tiny tweak when the strings obviously stretch after two hours of vigorous gigging or the neck has gone out a little either way in the heat or cold. I can also see the possibility of a lighter set to alleviate head dive.

Serious questions - does a more expensive set add more tone etc. to a bass like a decent bridge does?

Are they actually easier to turn than a set on a sub £500 bass?

Does a decent set help to eliminate ‘dead’ spot notes?

 

Honestly curious, not taking the mick anywhere at all, just wondering what the benefits could possibly be.

 

Like you, I’ve never needed to change a set of tuners ( or a bridge either come to think of it ) in all the time I’ve been playing. Some basses have had better tuners than others, but never felt that they were so bad to justify the outlay on a new set. My 63 Precision has the original tuners and bridge still fitted, and both still doing the job after 60 years of service. 😊

Edited March 19, 2022 by casapete
Stupidity

[Nail Soup]

I'm not one for modding (or gear acquisition in general).

I'd only be likely to change tuners as part of a repair... i.e. the tuners are causing me actual problems.

[Delberthot]

I like the neck to point slightly upwards when I play. If it doesn't then I'll change them for Ultralites.

 

That's the only time I ever change them

[fretmeister]

A set of Hipshot ultralites can be a half pound lighter than large plate tuners.

 

Thats a big weight saving, and as all that weight is coming off at the end of the neck, the balance improvement is immense.

[uk_lefty]

I've changed tuners before for both aesthetic and functional reasons. But I won't buy a brand new bass and add tuners etc to the shopping cart. Like with all things you could get some with dud components but I never got the whole "Sire tuners are rubbish" in their 1st generation of basses, they were fine for me. But I am not bothered about neck dive, I just don't get it and how this would affect playing when you've got your hand on the actual neck so it can't dive anywhere, but for people who are bothered by that then lighter tuners are probably helping them a little.

[neepheid]

Since I got all the modding for modding's sake out of my system, I've only changed tuners twice. One was a direct replacement of a broken one and the other was the tuners on an Epiphone Embassy. They were cheap and nasty with a lot of play in the rotation of them. They held tune ok but I didn't like how they felt at all so replaced them with some second hand Hipshot Licensed Ultralites I managed to score, but would have happily dropped in Gotoh GB707 or any other quality equivalent.

 

"More tone" by replacing tuners? No.

[Boodang]

Graphtec ratio tuners for more precise tuning accuracy might be a reason.

[Bassassin]

I've noticed a tendency to bin perfectly good torque-adjustable tuners because they were slipping, & the person didn't understand that they were perfectly good torque-adjustable tuners & they could have just adjusted the torque to stop them slipping.

[Boodang]

Well it's not just tuners.... changed the tuners on my Squier jazz for better & lighter, but you could say other hardware on the bass is not the best... and you're right, so changed that as well, everything. Literally the only thing left that's original is the wood, even the strap locks and neck plate got changed. Is it worth it, hell yes, comes in cheaper than a USA jazz but has exactly all the hardware I prefer.

[Rich]

I fitted Hipshot tuners to my Sire V7 fiver. Saved half a pound in weight.

[Woodinblack]

I changed the tuners on my SR1605 as it has one of the lightest face woods of any of the ibanez premiers, which made it slightly head heavy. I replaced the original very good tuners with some ultralights which was enough to stop any neck dive.

[Bassfinger]

Ive only ever felt the need the change one set, the rather poor OE jobs on my HB MB4.  They had so much slop I found tuning a chore as it was difficult to gauge when they were biting.

 

Being a cheap - but still very decent sounding- bass I didn't want to spend a lot so slapped on some Wilkinsons. Not quite as nice "feeling" in operation than the likes of Gotoh or Schaller, but light years ahead of the originals, nicely finish, and no slop.

 

Beyond that, guitar, bass or mandolin, I've never experienced tuners so poor that there was a genuine benefit to be had from replacing them.

 

As for weight, I'm a big chap with broad shoulders so a nice wide platform for a strap to hang from and I tend to wear the bass fairly high up Phil Lynott style, so never suffer neck dive.

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2022 by Bassfinger
Changed the tuners on my keyboard

[pfretrock]

My 2013 Mex P had a curved rectangular spring under each cog,  (fender design is different now). After about 6 months a thin black plastic washer, same shape as the spring started to appear and slide out on one tuner. Eventually all 4 did this and fell out. The low E tuner then started to buzz. Tightening the screw helped a bit but it came back.  Changed to Hipshots, higher ratio easier to tune.

[shoulderpet]

On 18/03/2022 at 21:02, LITTLEWING said:

I’m not being funny by any means, but why do people automatically swap to more expensive tuners?

if they’re cheap and nasty or if one has broken, fair enough, but in forty years of owning and playing a fair few basses I have never felt the need to change them. They’ve always held their tune and only need a tiny tweak when the strings obviously stretch after two hours of vigorous gigging or the neck has gone out a little either way in the heat or cold. I can also see the possibility of a lighter set to alleviate head dive.

Serious questions - does a more expensive set add more tone etc. to a bass like a decent bridge does?

Are they actually easier to turn than a set on a sub £500 bass?

Does a decent set help to eliminate ‘dead’ spot notes?

 

Honestly curious, not taking the mick anywhere at all, just wondering what the benefits could possibly be.

 

Honestly I think a tuner upgrade is one of the most worthwhile upgrades, if you play entry level Fender or Squier basses the tuners on those basses will do the job but that is the best I can say for them.

 

Having used those type of cheaper tuners they go out of tune more easily, I would find when tuning I needed to approach the note very slowly otherwise it would be very easy to overshoot and tune the note sharp or flat. 

 

Using higher quality, higher ratio 27:1 tuners they are much more precise, no more overshooting and tuning sharp and they stay in tune for longer, I can pick up a bass I haven't played in days and it will still be in tune

 

[Dad3353]

These are the original tuning pegs on my Hofner Verithin bass (my 'go-to' bass...). The bass is always in tune whenever I take it down from behind my armchair, and if I do decide to 'tweak' a little, it's no big deal. It helps, maybe, having Rotosound Tru-Bass strings fitted (not original, but on this bass for nigh-on twenty years, so nearly bedded in...). I've never had any issues with any of my other basses or guitars, either; never has any one of them been 'slipping', causing tuning problems. I can see the weight issue, at a stretch, but can't understand how a tuning peg can be a problem if the string's wound on correctly, and it's not actually broken or damaged. Maybe I've just been lucky all these decades..? 

 

   

[Lfalex v1.1]

 Because: Warwick Tuner QC. I've had 1 fail and 3 plus the replacement are all on the way out.

Once I have the money, time and inclination, I'll see if I can find some Hipshots or proper Schallers to replace them. I'd imagine the Schallers would be a straight drop-in. Not sure about the Hipshots. I'd rather not have a headstock like Swiss Cheese just because Warwick gave up on the quality of their tuners.