Basses across the ages…

[Bolo]

Double -or contra- basses are still with us, plus the whole thing was developed on the electrified guitar platform. A product just waiting to happen, not unlike electric piano/organ.

[Dood]

The Stingray should get an honorary mention to make up the "big three", even if it was '76. 

[NicoMcJ]

1 hour ago, Dood said:

The Stingray should get an honorary mention to make up the "big three", even if it was '76. 

Actually I’d rather have a Stingray than a Rick, can’t believe I missed that in the OP!!

[ped]

P/J/MM is the ultimate trio

[drTStingray]

The problem with this ‘basses by decades’ thing is it didn’t actually work like that. For those of us around during the 60s and 70s it went a bit like this:- 

 

60s -

1) bass was pretty inaudible on pop records until the late 60s - we could hear some quite interesting stuff on Motown records (but fairly indistinct - loud enough to be influenced/attempt to copy) - no idea who the bassist (s) we’re at the time 

2) Very mixed up ideas on what make sounded best - Gibson EB3 made a very nice sound in the hands of people like Andy Fraser especially live - Fender players like Leo Lyons and John McVie sounded great on record (post 16 track recording and deep vinyl grooves (literally)) - not very good live in comparison - Paul McC sounded less plummy on his Ric than his Hohner but Chris Squire sounded a bit clanky and tinny on his (especially live)

3) Many U.K. famous players influenced by the Shadows and their earliest bass players - particularly Jet Harris - who had a bass solo on their first album  (incredibly the fiesta red Precision (to match the Strats) was only played for about 18 months before they moved to matching white Burns instruments (incidentally the basses sounded far better than the Precision - watch Mark Griffiths on the Shadows Final Tour to see/hear this)

4) Many pop players in the 60s in the U.K. used Epiphone Rivoli or Gibson EB2s - as an amplified attempt at a double bass sound this was possibly the closest available

5) Jazz players - electric basses were few and far between, mostly upright.

 

I wouldn’t like to guess what the bass of the 60s was - possibly, owing to the prevalence of the Beatles, the Höfner or Rickenbacker should win.

 

70s early 

The early 70s is probably either a Fender Jazz or Precision - rock bands using Fenders never sounded much cop live, bass wise. However, R and B bands did, and the bass took an important role - players playing Jazz and Precision basses hard, and precisely got a good sound - examples of stand out players of this ilk for me were Louis Johnson (with Billy Preston), James Jamerson and Bob Babbitt (Motown), Boz Burrell (Bad Company - Precision fretless), Alan Spenner (Grease Band; Alvin Lee; Kokomo); Alan Gorrie (Average White Band); Colin Hodgkinson (Back Door)

 

70s mid to late 

At this point, people had started to look for better bass sounds to enable better studio sounds and better live sounds. As hi fi music systems for home use had become prevalent, and the multi track recording systems in studios had enabled ever increasing standards of fidelity, the idea of recording woolly-sounding bass had disappeared 

The Alembic bass, the Musicman Stingray and the Wal all, of which incorporated active electronics to give the player far more control over their sound - became used by most of the players previously mentioned.

Also, the Yamaha BB and Ibanez RS type basses were introduced, largely covering the same ground. It would be the early 80s before Fender even attempted an active bass!! 

I would give this part of the decade to the Stingray with the Wal and Alembics highly influential. Many of us who had learned to play to a reasonable standard wanted to sound like Stanley Clarke (who in turn had been influenced by Colin Hodgkinson) - Alembics were massively expensive though - but seen and heard to great effect with bands like Rose Royce, Fleetwood Mac - and I saw Louis Johnson using one live with the Brothers Johnson. 
Examples of remaining ‘hard hitting’ passive Fender players - Robert ‘Pops’ Popwell (The Crusaders; Olivia Newton John), Norman Watt Roy (Ian Dury and The Blockheads).
 

80s

The decade of the synth bass and where bass player’s and guitarist’s jobs were under threat….. 5 string bass guitars invented to combat synth basses

Influential basses were Steinberger, Ibanez Musician, Aria, Musicman Sabre, Wal. 

 

Jaco (Fender Jazz passive fretless) and Pino (Stingray active fretless) were very influential (Jaco since about 1977)
 

90s 

5 string basses become ubiquitous - Lakland, Warwick, Musicman. 
Flea is hugely influential with various basses but especially Stingray, Wal, Spector, Alembic - and then Modulus. Many new ‘boutique or boutiquish makes like Overwater, Ritter etc etc. 

Wooly vintage bass sounds become popular again thanks to Brit pop bands like Blur and Oasis

 

00s

Much as 90s but Fender basses become very popular again. 
It appears many producers have forgotten how to produce bass for non high wattage sub speaker consumers leading to accusations of xxxxx without bass becoming prevalent (eg place Jools Holland BBC show instead of xxxxx). 
 

10s

Much as 00s - I went to see both Jamiroquy and Level 42 ‘without properly audible bass sound’ at the beginning of this decade (note I’m a big fan of both Paul Turner and Mark King and placed the problem fairly and squarely with the people in charge of FOH sound). Even Flea had a go at using a vintage Fender Jazz and live soon replaced it with a Modulus - the Jazz did not produce the 80s/90s aggressive RHCP bass sound!! 
Fender basses very popular in this decade. 
Dingwall multi scale basses become popular especially (but also elsewhere) in metal. 
 

20s 

The world has gone bonkers owing to Covid and warring dictators leading to astronomical price rises for musical instruments and a couple of years of hiatus for pro musicians owing to lack of public performance opportunities.

 

It appears the importance of bass has become recognised again and artists like Calvin Harris and Dua Lipa have top selling singles and albums with bass akin to Bernard Edwards’ 1979 Stingray sound!! 

Active basses seem to be having a bit of a come back although many famous makes are now at previously boutique prices!! 

Edited March 22, 2022 by drTStingray

[drTStingray]

I’ve definitely missed out punk and ska from the late 70s - early 80s. Often Precisions but also Rickenbacker (the Jam for instance) - thus not active basses. A bit like Brit pop from the 90s on. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by drTStingray

[SteveXFR]

14 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

I’ve definitely missed out punk and ska from the late 70s - early 80s. Often Precisions but also Rickenbacker (the Jam for instance) - this not active basses. 

 

There were some Stingrays and Thunderbirds used in punk.

Grunge is also missing. Generally passive basses. P, J, Rickenbacker and Thunderbird all popular with the odd Stingray and Wal.

[drTStingray]

15 minutes ago, SteveXFR said:

 

There were some Stingrays and Thunderbirds used in punk.

Grunge is also missing. Generally passive basses. P, J, Rickenbacker and Thunderbird all popular with the odd Stingray and Wal.

Yes, agreed. 

[SteveXFR]

What grunge and punk had in common was both used whatever was cheap in the local pawn shop.

There was of course the odd exception with rich parents who bought them something fancy.

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, SteveXFR said:

What grunge and punk had in common was both used whatever was cheap in the local pawn shop.

There was of course the odd exception with rich parents who bought them something fancy.

I got the feeling the likes of the Pistols etc were set up with whatever the management thought was appropriate at the time. Knowing Messrs Weller and Co (by their own admissions) were deliberately trying to recreate very early Who material, but worshipped the Beatles also, that Rickenbacker instruments figured should probably be no surprise!! 
 

But for unsigned bands I’d agree!!! 
 

The likes of Colin Greenwood (Radiohead) and Alex James (Blur) used Stingrays and SR5s respectively in the studio quite extensively. 
 

I also think the Thunderbird is an oft overlooked bass that is quite popular amongst rock and grunge genres. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by drTStingray

[jacko]

3 hours ago, drTStingray said:

 

80s

The decade of the synth bass and where bass player’s and guitarist’s jobs were under threat….. 5 string bass guitars invented to combat synth basses

Influential basses were Steinberger, Ibanez Musician, Aria, Musicman Sabre, Wal. 

 

Alembic built Jimmy Johnson's first 5 string (low B) bass in 1975/76.  

[NicoMcJ]

20 hours ago, drTStingray said:

The problem with this ‘basses by decades’ thing is it didn’t actually work like that. For those of us around during the 60s and 70s it went a bit like this:- 

 

60s -

1) bass was pretty inaudible on pop records until the late 60s - we could hear some quite interesting stuff on Motown records (but fairly indistinct - loud enough to be influenced/attempt to copy) - no idea who the bassist (s) we’re at the time 

2) Very mixed up ideas on what make sounded best - Gibson EB3 made a very nice sound in the hands of people like Andy Fraser especially live - Fender players like Leo Lyons and John McVie sounded great on record (post 16 track recording and deep vinyl grooves (literally)) - not very good live in comparison - Paul McC sounded less plummy on his Ric than his Hohner but Chris Squire sounded a bit clanky and tinny on his (especially live)

3) Many U.K. famous players influenced by the Shadows and their earliest bass players - particularly Jet Harris - who had a bass solo on their first album  (incredibly the fiesta red Precision (to match the Strats) was only played for about 18 months before they moved to matching white Burns instruments (incidentally the basses sounded far better than the Precision - watch Mark Griffiths on the Shadows Final Tour to see/hear this)

4) Many pop players in the 60s in the U.K. used Epiphone Rivoli or Gibson EB2s - as an amplified attempt at a double bass sound this was possibly the closest available

5) Jazz players - electric basses were few and far between, mostly upright.

 

I wouldn’t like to guess what the bass of the 60s was - possibly, owing to the prevalence of the Beatles, the Höfner or Rickenbacker should win.

 

70s early 

The early 70s is probably either a Fender Jazz or Precision - rock bands using Fenders never sounded much cop live, bass wise. However, R and B bands did, and the bass took an important role - players playing Jazz and Precision basses hard, and precisely got a good sound - examples of stand out players of this ilk for me were Louis Johnson (with Billy Preston), James Jamerson and Bob Babbitt (Motown), Boz Burrell (Bad Company - Precision fretless), Alan Spenner (Grease Band; Alvin Lee; Kokomo); Alan Gorrie (Average White Band); Colin Hodgkinson (Back Door)

 

70s mid to late 

At this point, people had started to look for better bass sounds to enable better studio sounds and better live sounds. As hi fi music systems for home use had become prevalent, and the multi track recording systems in studios had enabled ever increasing standards of fidelity, the idea of recording woolly-sounding bass had disappeared 

The Alembic bass, the Musicman Stingray and the Wal all, of which incorporated active electronics to give the player far more control over their sound - became used by most of the players previously mentioned.

Also, the Yamaha BB and Ibanez RS type basses were introduced, largely covering the same ground. It would be the early 80s before Fender even attempted an active bass!! 

I would give this part of the decade to the Stingray with the Wal and Alembics highly influential. Many of us who had learned to play to a reasonable standard wanted to sound like Stanley Clarke (who in turn had been influenced by Colin Hodgkinson) - Alembics were massively expensive though - but seen and heard to great effect with bands like Rose Royce, Fleetwood Mac - and I saw Louis Johnson using one live with the Brothers Johnson. 
Examples of remaining ‘hard hitting’ passive Fender players - Robert ‘Pops’ Popwell (The Crusaders; Olivia Newton John), Norman Watt Roy (Ian Dury and The Blockheads).
 

80s

The decade of the synth bass and where bass player’s and guitarist’s jobs were under threat….. 5 string bass guitars invented to combat synth basses

Influential basses were Steinberger, Ibanez Musician, Aria, Musicman Sabre, Wal. 

 

Jaco (Fender Jazz passive fretless) and Pino (Stingray active fretless) were very influential (Jaco since about 1977)
 

90s 

5 string basses become ubiquitous - Lakland, Warwick, Musicman. 
Flea is hugely influential with various basses but especially Stingray, Wal, Spector, Alembic - and then Modulus. Many new ‘boutique or boutiquish makes like Overwater, Ritter etc etc. 

Wooly vintage bass sounds become popular again thanks to Brit pop bands like Blur and Oasis

 

00s

Much as 90s but Fender basses become very popular again. 
It appears many producers have forgotten how to produce bass for non high wattage sub speaker consumers leading to accusations of xxxxx without bass becoming prevalent (eg place Jools Holland BBC show instead of xxxxx). 
 

10s

Much as 00s - I went to see both Jamiroquy and Level 42 ‘without properly audible bass sound’ at the beginning of this decade (note I’m a big fan of both Paul Turner and Mark King and placed the problem fairly and squarely with the people in charge of FOH sound). Even Flea had a go at using a vintage Fender Jazz and live soon replaced it with a Modulus - the Jazz did not produce the 80s/90s aggressive RHCP bass sound!! 
Fender basses very popular in this decade. 
Dingwall multi scale basses become popular especially (but also elsewhere) in metal. 
 

20s 

The world has gone bonkers owing to Covid and warring dictators leading to astronomical price rises for musical instruments and a couple of years of hiatus for pro musicians owing to lack of public performance opportunities.

 

It appears the importance of bass has become recognised again and artists like Calvin Harris and Dua Lipa have top selling singles and albums with bass akin to Bernard Edwards’ 1979 Stingray sound!! 

Active basses seem to be having a bit of a come back although many famous makes are now at previously boutique prices!! 

So what you’re saying is I need to up the collection to about 30…? Seriously though, superb reading here. Thanks!

[bertbass]

60s, don't forget Wem / Wilson Rapers and Sapphires, Futurama and Hagstrom especially the 8 string bass.

[SumOne]

On 22/03/2022 at 07:23, Phil Starr said:

Am I the only one thinking that the remarkable thing about the electric bass is that it hasn't evolved? Leo did a good job and Fender style basses are still the dominant species.

 

The original P & J are great Basses and still do their jobs well (especially if playing music from the era they were first produced in)  but I think there has been evolution. The Ibanez EHB MS  is an evolution in almost every aspect right down to small things: 5 strings, 24 frets, headless, multiscale, lightweight, active 3 band EQ, burl top, chambered body, graphite rods, Luminescent side dots, mono-rail bridge, Schaller S-Lock strap locks and a Neutrik locking jack, slanted body back.  I get the impression the designers were told to look at every conventional aspect of a traditional Bass and try to evolve it.

 

I see it almost in the way like a rowing boat hasn't changed much in 100s of years and still does it's job well, that's not to say boats have not evolved though.

[Phil Starr]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

The original P & J are great Basses and still do their jobs well (especially if playing music from the era they were first produced in)  but I think there has been evolution. The Ibanez EHB MS  is an evolution in almost every aspect right down to small things: 5 strings, 24 frets, headless, multiscale, lightweight, active 3 band EQ, burl top, chambered body, graphite rods, Luminescent side dots, mono-rail bridge, Schaller S-Lock strap locks and a Neutrik locking jack, slanted body back.  I get the impression the designers were told to look at every conventional aspect of a traditional Bass and try to evolve it.

 

I see it almost in the way like a rowing boat hasn't changed much in 100s of years and still does it's job well, that's not to say boats have not evolved though.

My post was really meant as a bit of fun and a stimulus for debate but I think at least four people have responded to it and it's lunch time for me

 

I'll confess to being a biologist, born 200yds from where the Origin of species was written so I probably have an oddly literal view of evolution. Have these changes amounted to a speciation event or is this just an example of genetic drift? Have the newly evolved species moved into different niches which they dominate or displaced the old species?

 

My main birthday present this year was a set of noiseless pups for my J-bass. Very nice  Is changing the pups for humbuckers changing the bass or just am improvement? Is adding a fifth string a dramatic change which made all 4-strings redundant? If I go to see 100 bands how many will have a version of the P or J or a very close copy? Which is the bass that has totally replaced them?

 

Don't get me wrong I love threads like this and hearing other peoples opinions always sets me thinking, usually about spending money  I'd love a bass with all the bells and whistles but like so many I still take the Precision to gigs especially the bigger ones. I don't sing through an SM58 though or play through a 2x15 or use a valve amp which does make me think that the design of basses has been stunningly stable over the years.

[NicoMcJ]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

The original P & J are great Basses and still do their jobs well (especially if playing music from the era they were first produced in)  but I think there has been evolution. The Ibanez EHB MS  is an evolution in almost every aspect right down to small things: 5 strings, 24 frets, headless, multiscale, lightweight, active 3 band EQ, burl top, chambered body, graphite rods, Luminescent side dots, mono-rail bridge, Schaller S-Lock strap locks and a Neutrik locking jack, slanted body back.  I get the impression the designers were told to look at every conventional aspect of a traditional Bass and try to evolve it.

 

I see it almost in the way like a rowing boat hasn't changed much in 100s of years and still does it's job well, that's not to say boats have not evolved though.

I’m getting more and more interested in the EHB - does anyone know exactly how light they are? If they’re under 7lb 7oz for a 5er sign me up!

[SumOne]

2 minutes ago, NicoMcJ said:

I’m getting more and more interested in the EHB - does anyone know exactly how light they are? If they’re under 7lb 7oz for a 5er sign me up!

 

I ordered one today (hence my hype for them!) so should be able to confirm tomorrow but I have heard that they are about 3.4kg  (7lb 5oz).

[drTStingray]

23 hours ago, jacko said:

 

Alembic built Jimmy Johnson's first 5 string (low B) bass in 1975/76.  

With one or two exceptions, 5 strings were not really around until the late 80s (SR5 was 1987/8). 

[drTStingray]

7 hours ago, NicoMcJ said:

So what you’re saying is I need to up the collection to about 30…? Seriously though, superb reading here. Thanks!

I think the big point here is that very major change happened around the mid 70s - for many people (I’m talking semi pro/aspiring pros) the Fenders had ceased to be the bass of choice whereas they always had been.

 

The 80s almost split into two halves as well ( maybe even the 90s). 
 

So the ‘bass of the decade’ doesn’t really work in respect of history. 
 

In terms of a collection, I guess people collect what appeals to them. I don’t own a Fender currently and maybe won’t - my current ‘sort of’ wish list includes a Jaydee Supernatural and a Wal!! They’re probably both basses of the 80s!! 

 

I mentioned the Shadows and their influence on 60s players - it’s worth remembering their inspiration was Buddy Holly and the Crickets, hence the original, Cliff Richard imported Stratocaster and their subsequent use of Fender instruments in the v early 60s for a couple of years - they were emulating their idols!! Mo Foster’s book includes some commentary from Hank Marvin about issues with that Strat - which the Burns overcame!!! 
 

 

[NicoMcJ]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

I ordered one today (hence my hype for them!) so should be able to confirm tomorrow but I have heard that they are about 3.4kg  (7lb 5oz).

Nice!!!

[Grahambythesea]

Epiphone Rivoli - 60’s

Ibanez Roadster or Aria 1000 - 80s

[SumOne]

17 hours ago, NicoMcJ said:

I’m getting more and more interested in the EHB - does anyone know exactly how light they are? If they’re under 7lb 7oz for a 5er sign me up!

 

I can confirm mine is a very lightweight 3.3kg (7lb 3oz), and being headless it's well balanced. I just got it this morning so have only had a quick go on it but first impressions are all good.

[SteveXFR]

59 minutes ago, SumOne said:

 

I can confirm mine is a very lightweight 3.3kg (7lb 3oz), and being headless it's well balanced. I just got it this morning so have only had a quick go on it but first impressions are all good.

 

The one negative I've heard about the EHB is that the luminous fret markers don't glow for long enough. The one person I know who has one drilled his out and fitted luminay markers. That is a very minor thing. It wouldn't stop me buying one.

[NicoMcJ]

2 hours ago, SumOne said:

 

I can confirm mine is a very lightweight 3.3kg (7lb 3oz), and being headless it's well balanced. I just got it this morning so have only had a quick go on it but first impressions are all good.

I’ve just ordered an EHB1505MS…

[chris_b]

19 hours ago, drTStingray said:

With one or two exceptions, 5 strings were not really around until the late 80s (SR5 was 1987/8). 

#

My SR5 was a 1989 model. It was the only decent 5 string bass I could find when I switched in 1995.