Help identifying vintage rickenbacker fakes

[HK.]

 

1 hour ago, Happy Jack said:

 

You need more amplification ...

 

I know, right? Actually in the process of re-fining my gig-rigs. Adds 2 175w amps, each with a 2x10, for L/R on stage, with the fender rig in the middle backline. It's part of an experimental stereo setup using a bunch of fun panning/sweeping effects.

The aguilar is just for home practice......

[HK.]

On 01/04/2022 at 19:56, prowla said:

Don't use heavy gauge strings.

 

There are a few ways of addressing tail-lift:

• If it happens, just buy another tailpiece and put that on to start from the beginning again.
• Don't over-tighten the 3 screws under the bridge.
• Get a Hipshot replacement bridge (if you like the look of them).
• Put an extra two screws through the end of the tailpiece to bolt it back down (unsightly, but RIC did it on some).
• Get a RIC v2 bridge, which eliminates the issue; it does need new holes drilling, though.
• Come up with a Heath-Robinson fix of your own, for example slotting a bent-steel bracket under there somehow.
• Get a custom made tailpiece which is stronger (I looked into it, but a local aluminium workshop wasn't interested in doing a short run of them).
• Put a Badass or Schaller 3D bridge on the bass - it does need the under-bridge bays to be filled in, though. Geddy Lee had a Badass on his and RIC themselves used Schallers on the 4004 and 4003/5 models. (Some folks even put Kahler whammy bridges on their Rics.)

Hey, just to clarify this; It's the bridge itself that bends? 

So what I can do basically, is use the current one until it's lifted or It becomes a problem, then buy a v2 bridge and get it installed?

[prowla]

1 hour ago, HK. said:

Hey, just to clarify this; It's the bridge itself that bends? 

So what I can do basically, is use the current one until it's lifted or It becomes a problem, then buy a v2 bridge and get it installed?

The bridge is just the little bit with the 4 string saddles on it and the tailpiece is the big block it sits on which is where the strings thread through; the pull of the strings can cause that to lift.

The 70's ones were especially prone to that, but the more recent ones had a bit more bracing to them, which made them less susceptible but not immune to tail-lift.

[HK.]

4 minutes ago, prowla said:

The bridge is just the little bit with the 4 string saddles on it and the tailpiece is the big block it sits on which is where the strings thread through; the pull of the strings can cause that to lift.

The 70's ones were especially prone to that, but the more recent ones had a bit more bracing to them, which made them less susceptible but not immune to tail-lift.

Looking at my 2013, its lifted about 1-2MM at the "butt" part, is that the beginning of it? Does it sit completely flush when new?

[BlueMoon]

My 1999 4003 had bridge lift. Not dramatic, but was getting worse with time. I fitted a V2 bridge/tailpiece and TI flats. Sorted.

[Bassassin]

9 hours ago, prowla said:

I think the factories had a checklist of options their customers could choose from:

• One output or two.
• Wavy waffle tuners or generic.
• One truss-rod or two.
• Logo on TRC or gold screen-printed onto headstock.
• Black, fireglo, or custom colour.
• Bolt-on or thru-neck.
• 34" or 33.25" scale.
• etc.

The Matsumoku factory appears to have predominantly produced 34" bolt-on neck versions, which can typically be identified by the "Steel Adjustable Neck" neck plate and dot position markers for the control knobs.

 

Paul - you know I'm going to be a pedant about this but indulge me! Broadly that's a list of a lot of of the variations, but on the whole these are what we can use to ID the factory which made a specific Faker. Factories stuck to their designs & details with only a few variations, which were either based on model level or evolution over time. A good example of the latter would be Fujigen (Ibanez, some Greco, some Electra and others), whose early basses (from '71-ish) had early 70s Rick traits like checked binding & full-width inlays, but were fitted with Gibson-type pickups, because it seems no Rick copy units were available at the time. The model was revised, probably around '74/5 to have Rick type pickups & small inlays, but kept the checked binding.

 

The Grover type tuners were exclusive to Matsumoku and one of the ways to ID a Mat copy. They also appeared on other Mats basses, including the Epiphone Scroll bass & some through-neck ET288s.

 

Thing is, many people don't realise how many different manufacturers (from major concerns like Fujigen & Chushin, to little backstreet woodshops), were operating in Japan during the 70s - possibly numbering into three figures. During the copy era most, if not all, will have made a Rick 4001 type. We're certain about a handful really, mostly where a brand name is known to be linked to a specific manufacturer. Obviously that's particularly tricky with Rick clones due to the tendency of orginal trcs to go in the bin!

[prowla]

Hey, John - I’ll always defer to your extensive knowledge. 🙂

[HK.]

8 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

 

 

 

including the Epiphone Scroll bass

 

OH MY GOD. I had never heard of this. Googled it and now I know 100% what my next bass wil be.

[Bassassin]

2 minutes ago, prowla said:

Hey, John - I’ll always defer to your extensive knowledge. 🙂

 

Knowledge is a journey with no destination, young Padawan. And I have been walking in circles for a very long time...

 

1 minute ago, HK. said:

OH MY GOD. I had never heard of this. Googled it and now I know 100% what my next bass wil be.

 

Good luck finding one!

 

 

[HK.]

On 03/04/2022 at 20:17, Bassassin said:

 

Knowledge is a journey with no destination, young Padawan. And I have been walking in circles for a very long time...

 

 

Good luck finding one!

 

 

Came across a Kasuga maple neckthru. Is it worth the 600ish euro's ya think? Decent condition, but lacking TRC. Also has a small crack between board and neck up at the truss, seller says its 100% stable tho.

[prowla]

47 minutes ago, HK. said:

Came across a Kasuga maple neckthru. Is it worth the 600ish euro's ya think? Decent condition, but lacking TRC. Also has a small crack between board and neck up at the truss, seller says its 100% stable tho.

Not having its original TRC and damage impacts its value. 

[Bassassin]

On 05/07/2022 at 19:55, prowla said:

Not having its original TRC and damage impacts its value. 

 Agree about the damage (although if it's only minor fretboard delamination near the nut, it's a really easy fix) but most Fakers don't have their original trc & I wouldn't say it impacts value.

 

Would need to see pics to confirm it's a Kasuga - but imo €600 is a lot for any Faker.

[HK.]

2 hours ago, Bassassin said:

 Agree about the damage (although if it's only minor fretboard delamination near the nut, it's a really easy fix) but most Fakers don't have their original trc & I wouldn't say it impacts value.

 

Would need to see pics to confirm it's a Kasuga - but imo €600 is a lot for any Faker.

I'm definitely sure, its identical to another on talkbass. But the seller turned out to be certifiably crazy. He kept spamming me with messages, wanted me to trade a 1200euro bass for it with no money, etc etc. So it fell through.

[HK.]

3 hours ago, Bassassin said:

 Agree about the damage (although if it's only minor fretboard delamination near the nut, it's a really easy fix) but most Fakers don't have their original trc & I wouldn't say it impacts value.

 

Would need to see pics to confirm it's a Kasuga - but imo €600 is a lot for any Faker.

Btw theres an aria pro 2 faker over at talkbass for 1900 dollars:p

[Maude]

6 hours ago, HK. said:

Btw theres an aria pro 2 faker over at talkbass for 1900 dollars:p

 

Asking $1900 is one thing, getting it is another! 

 

I've just decided that my Aria faker is for sale at £2500, it doesn't make it worth that... and it will never sell. 

 

🙂

[prowla]

7 hours ago, HK. said:

Btw theres an aria pro 2 faker over at talkbass for 1900 dollars:p

So there is - a nice looking set-neck.

However, asking 3-4x its value is having a giraffe.

[BlueMoon]

There are a couple of fakers currently on our local ebay (tweedehands.be). One is a Matsumoku(??) with a set neck in "green-glo" (1000€ asking price) and a Zen-on in Jetglo colour and through neck design. Asking price 2000€.

 

This gives some indication of the variation in price.

[prowla]

3 hours ago, BlueMoon said:

There are a couple of fakers currently on our local ebay (tweedehands.be). One is a Matsumoku(??) with a set neck in "green-glo" (1000€ asking price) and a Zen-on in Jetglo colour and through neck design. Asking price 2000€.

 

This gives some indication of the variation in price.

Both of those prices are silly.

[BlueMoon]

8 minutes ago, prowla said:

Both of those prices are silly.

Completely agree!!

It comes to something if the asking prices of some fakes are in the same region of the real thing.

 

I know what I'd rather have..........and very happy with the real-deal.

[HK.]

Yeah.. Since I started this post, I've aquired 3 real ricks. I love them!

I've yet to get a faker, allthough I am very interested in one. I'd like one to use as my main player, so I don't have to be overly cautious about it. But with the prices some people are asking (especially here in Norway), I can get 1 rick per 2 fakes, which is just stoopit.

Hopefully I'll come across a decent one in the near future, where the seller is a little more grounded😂

[Chienmortbb]

That ain't a Ric its a Danelectro Longhorn.

[Giffro]

Had more hair and a Ric 4000 in the 70's, then a 4003 in the 80's and currently a new 4003 2017 model. Rics have always served me well through the years.

 

T

Edited December 21, 2022 by Giffro

[Tove]

On 01/04/2022 at 14:28, prowla said:

FYI, this is one I owned (a CMI), next to a real Ric; the ones you've posted have nicer tuners.

 

 

How muck did you pay for your CMI? I got one and this is the only one i can find that is close to being the same as mine. - And i would like to sell mine, but i dont know for how much. Ive been looking through the internet for hours.

[prowla]

10 hours ago, Tove said:

 

How muck did you pay for your CMI? I got one and this is the only one i can find that is close to being the same as mine. - And i would like to sell mine, but i dont know for how much. Ive been looking through the internet for hours.

Prices are all over the place; this one looks like a rather nice but not quite top of the pile (eg. the tuners) thru-neck.

It's a shame its logo has gone and

Amusingly, they tended to put theTreble pickup surround on the wrong way round on these; real Rics have the wider flange toward the bridge and it always twinges my OCD.

I'm thinking around the £600 mark; if it had the logo £650.

Price is dependent upon binding (is it separating from the body), neck (neck lift), and tailpiece (tail-lift) condition; I can't tell those from the picture.

If you're on Facebook, there is a thriving fakers community.

@Bassassin may have comments to add.

My black CMI cost me £150 in 2018; it had neck-lift, which needed work to sort out - I half-fixed it to mitigate the issue and sold it on for £250.

FYI, neck-lift is due to a design issue: the Bass/neck pickup bay cuts out a significant chunk of wood which creates a weak point in the thru-neck and the pull of the strings can cause the neck to bend forward at that point; fixing it requires remedial work. The issue manifests itself as a high action which can't be adjusted by the bridge height.

[HK.]

not real. but looks like a great fake. might have an awesome sound.

 

TBH I initially thought real but the inlays are off

Edited February 25 by HK.