Beedster Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 7 hours ago, leftybassman392 said: @fretmeister Thank you for your contributions to this thread. I'm not interested enough in the outcome of the case to care much either way, but it is refreshing to hear from somebody who knows how it actually works. My sentiment exactly, this thread was a great read for that reason 👍 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robscott Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 TBH, modern music is so utterly unadventurous and formulaic, the songs are all clones of each other. No-one owns any of it. Added to which, if there was a judgement to be made on musical content, why on earth would you consult a lawyer? Or is it just me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 11 minutes ago, robscott said: TBH, modern music is so utterly unadventurous and formulaic, the songs are all clones of each other. No-one owns any of it. Added to which, if there was a judgement to be made on musical content, why on earth would you consult a lawyer? Or is it just me? Because it’s not really about music. Its about the alleged theft of intellectual property. The type of property isn’t really important. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tjhooker Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 ES is GC and should FO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nail Soup Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 14 hours ago, robscott said: TBH, modern music is so utterly unadventurous and formulaic, the songs are all clones of each other. I'm not so sure about that....it may seem that way from my (and your?) age perspective, but it's probably not true, and there was lots of formulaic stuff in previous eras. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 I’m not an ES fan either, but he has inspired a new generation to pick up a guitar, and that’s always a good thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, fretmeister said: I’m not an ES fan either, but he has inspired a new generation to pick up a guitar, and that’s always a good thing. Are you sure about that, I’ve heard some of them… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 (edited) ES writes a good tune (you can easily whistle, hum or sing), has a good voice and a cheeky smile, just what a good pop song wants. I'd rather listen to ES than some of the songs we had to endure in the top 10 in the "golden period" of pop music. Edited April 10, 2022 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 16 hours ago, robscott said: TBH, modern music is so utterly unadventurous and formulaic, the songs are all clones of each other. Eh? There's loads of new, refreshing, innovative original stuff out there. You might not find it on R1, but... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 19 minutes ago, chris_b said: I'd rather listen to ES than some of the songs we had to endure in the top 10 in the "golden period" of pop music. Your not dissing agadoo are you? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 16 hours ago, robscott said: TBH, modern music is so utterly unadventurous and formulaic, the songs are all clones of each other. That has always been the way with pop music, the majority is bland copies, but there is a lot of decent stuff out there. Same as now, except I think there is even more good stuff than there used to be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 57 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: Your not dissing agadoo are you? I'm sure that back in the day @chris_b was forever pushing pineapple and grounding coffee! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, MacDaddy said: I'm sure that back in the day @chris_b was forever pushing pineapple and grounding coffee! Jeeez. . . . how did you find out!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 On 09/04/2022 at 12:43, fretmeister said: This assumption of innocence until proven otherwise is a vital part of a fair system. The state isn’t limited to the crap legal aid rates that the defendant has. The state can spend millions on a prosecution if they want. It’s such an uneven playing field that innocence must be the starting point. OTOH, CPS barristers (like my brother-in-law) aren't exactly paid a fortune. Still, legal aid has been eroded over the last decade or so, which is quite disgraceful. Quote If you want something to be angry about with good reason then try these 2. 1: If you are not eligible for legal aid so you have to pay your own lawyer and you are found Not Guilty then the state does not have to reimburse your costs even if clearing your name made you bankrupt and homeless. 2: If you are wrongfully convicted and later an appeal finds you not guilty then unless another person is found guilty of that offence the government position is that the question of guilt is not yet resolved so you get zero compensation for being locked up for 20 years. Then, if another person is convicted so you can get compensation (you’ll love this) your room and board expenses from being in prison are deducted from the compensation amount, because you would have needed to pay for them outside anyway. Has that second point changed since the Birmingham 6? No-one else has been prosecuted for that but they were awarded compensation (as you say, less their room and board expenses which is really adding insult to injury), although it took a decade from their release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDaddy Posted April 10, 2022 Author Share Posted April 10, 2022 I have never experienced the presumption of innocence, when questioned by the Police. Very much a presumption of guilt. Btw I was innocent, honest Guv! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 2 hours ago, tauzero said: OTOH, CPS barristers (like my brother-in-law) aren't exactly paid a fortune. Still, legal aid has been eroded over the last decade or so, which is quite disgraceful. Has that second point changed since the Birmingham 6? No-one else has been prosecuted for that but they were awarded compensation (as you say, less their room and board expenses which is really adding insult to injury), although it took a decade from their release. Much more recently. IIRC it was when Grayling was Minister for Justice. or thereabouts. There are slightly more methods of getting money than I said but we’d be here all day. But the govt overall position is that there must be proof of another’s guilt rather than your own conviction “just” not being safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 11 hours ago, paul_5 said: Are you sure about that, I’ve heard some of them… No winners without losers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 I've seen this a while ago, and it's very true. There are also similarities in between metal/rock songs or metal and pop. E.g. the start of the guitar solo by Adrian Smith in The Gangland from The Number of The Beast, is similar to The Final Countdown by Europe. The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner- Iron Maiden intro is similar to that of It's a Sin by Pet Shop Boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 (edited) On 09/04/2022 at 21:08, robscott said: TBH, modern music is so utterly unadventurous and formulaic, the songs are all clones of each other. Totally agree, doesn't need much creativity to compose either. Have you ever listened to the quality on the monthly Basschat challenge? Edited April 11, 2022 by SH73 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SumOne Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Unfortunately, there's also a lot more to making a piece of music popular than just making the music. Even if both were exactly the same it's probably the Sheeran one that'd get most popular down to presentation, marketing, 'brand' recognition, distribution etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robscott Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 On 10/04/2022 at 13:31, barkin said: Eh? There's loads of new, refreshing, innovative original stuff out there. You might not find it on R1, but... Yeah, but we were talking about Ed Sheeran remember? Nothing against ES but intellectual property? Come on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robscott Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 On 10/04/2022 at 11:35, Nail Soup said: I'm not so sure about that....it may seem that way from my (and your?) age perspective, but it's probably not true, and there was lots of formulaic stuff in previous eras. Yeah there was, but nobody went running to their lawyers over it (well, Taurus did of course). I just think modern day "musicians" who write a 3 minute song and think they've invented something new and unique are a bit up themselves that's all. It's probably just my age..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barkin Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 hour ago, robscott said: Yeah, but we were talking about Ed Sheeran remember? Nothing against ES but intellectual property? Come on! It wasn't me made the sweeping "modern music..." assertion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicko Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 1 hour ago, robscott said: Yeah there was, but nobody went running to their lawyers over it (well, Taurus did of course). I just think modern day "musicians" who write a 3 minute song and think they've invented something new and unique are a bit up themselves that's all. It's probably just my age..... George Harrison nicked "My Sweet Lord" and got sued in the 70s. Rod Stewart accepted that he'd subconsciously stolen "D'ya Think I'm Sexy" and the Hollies have a writing credit on Creep by Radiohead who didn't even bother trying to claim they hadn't nicked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted April 11, 2022 Share Posted April 11, 2022 Timely article from the Guardian, reminding us that Ed is not the only musician who wanted to put an end to bogus law suits. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/apr/10/john-lennon-morris-levy-beatle-v-mobster-1976-court-battle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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