Lobster discovers Fender / Gretsch are telling porkies about spec

[Sibob]

Working at an MI company that is probably half the size (if not smaller) than Fender (assuming that Gretsch is in no-way autonomous as a brand), it’s VERY difficult to believe that a spec change wouldn’t include the same stringent checks on product page details and copy as we go through.

If that process has failed, but it’s a simple oversight, I wonder if it still makes them somewhat liable to supply all who have purchased (who care) replacement humbuckers should they admit to said oversight.

 

If they admit to purposefully misleading (which they won’t), then it’s severe brand sentiment damage.

 

Either way, not ideal, and most likely why they’re taking some time to respond. 

 

Si

[Paolo85]

19 hours ago, NikNik said:

I bought a HB double-cut Junior and it's one of my fav guitars. 

Just to clarify, I wasn't meaning to criticise HB. Never tried, but I have one on the way right now

[Stub Mandrel]

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[Downunderwonder]

What about print adverts and posters?

[Chris2112]

On 13/04/2022 at 13:10, Jonesy said:

 

I agree with you and think the vid does go a bit OTT on the whole fraud front............but he's not wrong, a company deliberately misleading the buying public is definitely fraudulent and he has a case. There's no way this is a mistake by Fender/Gretsch and they don't know what sort of pick up they put in there.

 

🙂

 

You think? It wouldn't be the first time. Spector incorrectly labelled the Michalik Tonepump preamps used in their basses as 'boost only' for decades. Even when it turned out this was incorrect (and apparently stemmed from a translation error in a manual), the misinformation persisted. I know that PJ Rubal was actually informed of this personally and said he'd see to it that it was rectified but the incorrect description remained on their website for years afterwards.

[skej21]

On 14/04/2022 at 19:18, NikNik said:

Thr clickbait claim us without merit. Seriously,  WTF?

It’s quite interesting that someone who quite happily uses gimmicks and misleading, clickbaity content would create a holier-than-thou video trying to highlight (likely unintentionally) deceiptful marketing. People in glass houses and all that…

[Kev]

On 18/04/2022 at 08:30, Chris2112 said:

 

You think? It wouldn't be the first time. Spector incorrectly labelled the Michalik Tonepump preamps used in their basses as 'boost only' for decades. Even when it turned out this was incorrect (and apparently stemmed from a translation error in a manual), the misinformation persisted. I know that PJ Rubal was actually informed of this personally and said he'd see to it that it was rectified but the incorrect description remained on their website for years afterwards.

Amazing.  I've never had a Spector and/or a Tonepump preamp, and all I've ever known about it was that its boost only.  How bizarre.

[Nebadon2000]

On 18/04/2022 at 17:30, skej21 said:

It’s quite interesting that someone who quite happily uses gimmicks and misleading, clickbaity content would create a holier-than-thou video trying to highlight (likely unintentionally) deceiptful marketing. People in glass houses and all that…

 

👎 To add an 'And all that' "No good deed goes unpunished"

[stereoplayer]

The corresponding thread about this was locked at TalkBass.  FYI 

It’s too bad.  I hope to read more info here.

 

Edited April 23, 2022 by stereoplayer

[Aidan63]

4 hours ago, stereoplayer said:

The corresponding thread about this was locked at TalkBass.  FYI 

It’s too bad.  I hope to read more info here.

 

Why was it locked; because it was a nasty bun fight or because FMC applied pressure behind the scenes ?

[Jonesy]

I've just seen these on a short scale group on FB. It looks like Gretsch have changed the description on their site to say they're single coils.......

 

https://www.gretschguitars.com/gear/build/bass/g2220-electromatic-junior-jet-bass-ii-short-scale/2514730526

[Chris2112]

2 hours ago, Aidan63 said:

Why was it locked; because it was a nasty bun fight or because FMC applied pressure behind the scenes ?

 

It was getting quite catty before it was locked with the usual arguments within arguments and petty semantic dissection coming before the main point in hand. I expect it was locked for review behind the scenes for any potential legal issues it might have caused as TB is massive on that these days. Most of the useless arguing was scrubbed. 

 

 

[Woodinblack]

I am not surprised, but also it is a bit different there as he is a member of TalkBass

[Chris2112]

In fairness, Lobster wasn't the one doing the arguing. In typical clickbait fashion he lit the touchpaper and ran. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Chris2112

[Woodinblack]

53 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

usual arguments within arguments and petty semantic dissection coming before the main point in hand.

 

Which is the same as here no?

 

40 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I am not surprised, but also it is a bit different there as he is a member of TalkBass

9 minutes ago, Chris2112 said:

In fairness, Lobster wasn't the one doing the arguing. In typical clickbait fashion he lit the touchpaper and ran. 

 

No, I mean that an argument about his post would be different because people would be attacking a member of their forum

[Chris2112]

You misunderstand, people weren't in the main attacking Lobster or even the issue he had raised with the pickups. In the main he had flipped off after a short while leaving others to argue ever more nebulous and tedious points against each other. It was the typical one poster Vs another online dogfight, anyone who didn't see the thread before it was pruned missed nothing of note. 

[Vin Venal]

Lobster is as good as it gets by youtube standards.

 

You can accuse him of clickbait video titles and thumbnails, but within the context of the culture of YouTube, his stuff is very mild.

 

That's just how the youtube algorithm works I'm afraid. If he didn't engage with the youtube culture at all, none of us would likely have ever heard of his channel.

 

Unlike basically all the other bass and guitar channels, Lobster doesn't do sponsored content. He buys all the basses himself, or borrows them from friends. All the other youtubers I know either get paid for their "reviews" by manufacturers or dealers directly, or at least get the gear for free.

 

Lobster is only able to do that because he's basically independently quite well off. He did a video explaining this.

 

His videos are monetized, so will be generating some ad revenue, but it will be a pittance, and probably won't even cover his expenses. That's not how youtubers make money any more.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Vin Venal

[Chris2112]

Clickbait tactics aside, Lobster is definitely one of most watchable bass YouTubers. I really think he demonstrates the notion that a decent portion of what any bass sounds like is in the hands of the player and how it's recorded as a lot of his basses sound very similar. 

[Martin E]

Just thinking out loud,,, is there not an expectation that a bass like this will hava humbuckers or at least something  that looks like them.

Imagine a Les Paul looking bass like that having a pair of jazz singlecoil  pickups, they would look really out of place.

 

 

[NikNik]

1 hour ago, Vin Venal said:

Lobster is as good as it gets by youtube standards.

 

You can accuse him of clickbait video titles and thumbnails, but within the context of the culture of YouTube, his stuff is very mild.

 

That's just how the youtube algorithm works I'm afraid. If he didn't engage with the youtube culture at all, none of us would likely have ever heard of his channel.

 

Unlike basically all the other bass and guitar channels, Lobster doesn't do sponsored content. He buys all the basses himself, or borrows them from friends. All the other youtubers I know either get paid for their "reviews" by manufacturers or dealers directly, or at least get the gear for free.

 

Lobster is only able to do that because he's basically independently quite well off. He did a video explaining this.

 

His videos are monetized, so will be generating some ad revenue, but it will be a pittance, and probably won't even cover his expenses. That's not how youtubers make money any more.

Many years ago I had ad placements in my blog. The income went into the dog-box.

[Woodinblack]

2 hours ago, Martin E said:

Just thinking out loud,,, is there not an expectation that a bass like this will hava humbuckers or at least something  that looks like them.

Imagine a Les Paul looking bass like that having a pair of jazz singlecoil  pickups, they would look really out of place.

 

I am not sure there is no. And a Les Paul with P90 pickups looks pretty good, but they are the same size as the humbuckers.

[drTStingray]

From what I could see, Lobster identified an issue which, seemingly few were aware of (the pick ups stated in Gretch literature and on line as humbuckers were in fact single coil).

 

The rest of the thread was taken up with the people complaining they had thought they were humbuckers and thus had been misled (seems a reasonable conclusion to me, although I’m from U.K. where we have laws relating to misleading or plain wrong advertising, and consumer legislation that protects from this sort of thing) - however a bunch of other people jumped in to defend Gretch (and Fender) suggesting variously it didn’t really matter, possibly was an ‘oversight’ on the part of the marketing people - I must say I wasn’t surprised as I’ve seen half baked idiocy before of that sort. 
 

It was then shown that the advertising had been changed (although no official comment from Gretch/Fender - says a lot for their public interface - although not really any surprise there…… 🙄
 

I do wonder whether Gretch/Fender are running worried they may get taken to task legally over it by significant numbers of people. Having said that, if they’re happy with their instruments they possibly will have less of a problem. 
 

As for people complaining about Lobster, well all he’s done is brought awareness to an advertising irregularity which is somewhat misleading - why any consumer would want to attach him over that is beyond me (unless the attackers are paid employees of the allegedly miscreant companies 😂😂). 

Edited April 23, 2022 by drTStingray

[Greg Edwards69]

On 23/04/2022 at 03:16, stereoplayer said:

The corresponding thread about this was locked at TalkBass.  FYI 

It’s too bad.  I hope to read more info here.

 

FWIW, there's a new thread continuing the saga, since Gretsch corrected the specs

 

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/update-to-the-g2220-saga.1559805/

[Greg Edwards69]

Also, FWIW, I'm quite intrigued to try one of these basses, humbuckers or not.  Seems like a good platform to start exploring short scale (this or the Sire).

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

Also, FWIW, I'm quite intrigued to try one of these basses, humbuckers or not.  Seems like a good platform to start exploring short scale (this or the Sire).

 

They are great basses. I had one, gigged it (once I replaced the switch which was terrible), and they sound really strong.