Lobster discovers Fender / Gretsch are telling porkies about spec

[Greg Edwards69]

My only concern is ergonomics, having never played a single cut bass design.  I like my top horn strap button to reach around the 12th fret which not only improved balance, but brings the nut a bit closer (my old Warwick Thumb was terrible in this respect).

 

But I notice the gretsch button falls somewhat short of that around the 15th fret, so I wonder if the gains from the shorter scale (shorter reach to the nut) are somewhat lost from the strap button positioning.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Greg Edwards69 said:

But I notice the gretsch button falls somewhat short of that around the 15th fret, so I wonder if the gains from the shorter scale (shorter reach to the nut) are somewhat lost from the strap button positioning.

It is most certainly feels a shorter reach to the nut than a non short scale, not that I ever analysed it. It feels very light and toylike in your hands, but it is a really good sound (humbuckers or not - in fact why I didn't think it had humbuckers until this thread). I would have kept it but it got to the same 'I don't play 4 strings' thing that I always end up with.

For how long it goes out, look at the earlier royal blood videos which show the sort of scale compared to a person, he used to play those all the time before he became a fender sponsored guy.

[Tokalo]

I was looking at buying one last year, but came across a video in which the bassist said the humbuckers were way too noisy. It put me off, but when I saw Lobster’s video recently it made sense.
 

If I hadn’t seen that video, I could have purchased the bass and got lots of wrong idea about humbuckers and controlling noisy pickups etc.

 

I’ve just checked a few UK retailers and most have the old text (I’ve messaged Andertons, PMT, Mann’s, Peach and my local - Coda Music). Only GuitarGuitar seems to have corrected their site.

[Aidan63]

the fact that only guitarguitar is updated shows who's across other youtube channels and that FMC/Gretsch haven't possibly sent out a mail to their dealers clarifying matters, or their web teams are so busy they haven't actioned it

[Musicman20]

 

This is what the world has come to!

[skej21]

1 hour ago, Musicman20 said:

 

This is what the world has come to!

A bunch of people talking nonsense instead of practicing? Pretty standard bass player activity!

[drTStingray]

Someone who has complained about these has posted on Talkbass copies of the email trails - appears to be a sorry tale of woefully inadequate customer service giving the customer the run around (who would have guessed - FMIC’s woeful customer service, when things go wrong, has cropped up here in the past 🙄🥴). It appears Thomann has removed them from sale - it will be interesting to see if the manufacturer had to answer any consumer/advertising standard issues from a legal viewpoint in due course. 

 

As Lobster has said, it’s a bit like buying a car advertised as having a V8 engine and then discovering it’s 4 cylinder. 

Edited April 28, 2022 by drTStingray

[Guest]

2 hours ago, drTStingray said:

Lobster has said, it’s a bit like buying a car advertised as having a V8 engine and then discovering it’s 4 cylinder. 

 

Every single car analogy I've read on a bass forum is rubbish but this one takes the biscuit. Next someone will be saying that being a two-stroke slowed the RD350 down.

[Stub Mandrel]

WERE YOU MIS-SOLD PPI

 

(PECULIAR PICKUP INSTALLATION)

 

CONTACT US NOW!

 

 

[Musicman20]

I honestly think the whole thing has been completely overblown. Now those youtubers are making money from long streams talking about it!

 

 

[drTStingray]

2 hours ago, Ricky Rioli said:

 

Every single car analogy I've read on a bass forum is rubbish but this one takes the biscuit. Next someone will be saying that being a two-stroke slowed the RD350 down.

Some people have bought this type of bass thinking it has humbuckers because not only do they look like it but the advertising blurb says they are - they’ve then discovered the so called humbuckers are noisy - whilst some bass players are quite happy to put up with noisy single coil pick ups many are not.

So the analogy (car) is correct - the company has advertised a fundamental part of the instrument to be something it isn’t. 
 

So @Ricky Rioli id respectfully suggest your analysis of the analogy is flawed if not totally wrong. 
 

Just because some bass playing consumers are willing to put up with total mediocrity, appalling customer service and downright inaccurate advertising from particular manufacturers is not a reason for everyone putting up with it. It also contravenes consumer legislation in many territories.
 

I’ve no personal axe to grind BUT companies advertising falsely or exhibiting obfuscation when they get things wrong, and demonstrating scant regard for their customers via the aftermarket support they provide do hugely annoy me 🤬 if it’s a major company who should know better it’s even worse!

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by drTStingray

[Woodinblack]

3 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Some people have bought this type of bass thinking it has humbuckers because not only do they look like it but the advertising blurb says they are - they’ve then discovered the so called humbuckers are noisy - whilst some bass players are quite happy to put up with noisy single coil pick ups many are not.

 

where you say 'put up with noisy single coils', they are not noisy single coils, they are single coils, no more or less noisy than other single coils, no worse than a jazz bass, which many people seem to 'put up with'. I personally have never heard of somone buying a bass specifically because the blurb said they were humbuckers, most people just go because they like the sound.

 

 

3 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

So the analogy (car) is correct - the company has advertised a fundamental part of the instrument to be something it isn’t. 

 

The car analogy is a hyperbole. It has a misdescribed item. If you bought a V8 car and it was a 4 cylinder car I would assume you would notice it as soon as you took it out of the car park. I would imagine that 95% of people with these basses never noticed anything.

 

 

3 minutes ago, drTStingray said:

Just because some bass playing consumers are willing to put up with total mediocrity, appalling customer service and downright inaccurate advertising from particular manufacturers is not a reason for everyone putting up with it. It also contravenes consumer legislation in many territories.

 

Wow, the poor loves had to struggle through with single coils, how did they cope?!!

 

It is a really cheap bass that has a misdescription. lets not go crazy. Yes, it shouldn't have happened but it does. Do fender or musicman advertise that some of their basses have dead spots? Why do spector say their tonepumps are just boost controls? Do people sue car companies when they don't get the consumption figures they specify? Who on earth reads the advertising of a manufacturer and believes it over their own experience?

 

[LukeFRC]

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Do people sue car companies when they don't get the consumption figures they specify?

Erm https://www.theverge.com/2021/7/8/22568356/volkswagen-bmw-daimler-emissions-cartel-fine-audi-porsche-eu

[MrDinsdale]

If a company misleads/lies to customers they should be called out.

 

I was whizzed off when I updated my graphics card in my pc to a gtx970. It was supposed to have 4gb of ram, in reality it had 3.5gb. Sure most people wouldn't notice but for those that did it was a pretty bitter taste. They got sued and had to reimburse customers accordingly.

[stereoplayer]

I don’t own a Gretsch but I prefer single coil PU’s

[drTStingray]

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

The car analogy is a hyperbole. It has a misdescribed item. If you bought a V8 car and it was a 4 cylinder car I would assume you would notice it as soon as you took it out of the car park. 

And when you discovered the supposed V8 (labelled as such on the engine cover) wasn’t and you took it back to the supplier and they just gave you the runaround and didn’t deal with the matter (in spite of the fact they have the correct engines available) what would you do? 
 

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

where you say 'put up with noisy single coils', they are not noisy single coils, they are single coils, no more or less noisy than other single coils, no worse than a jazz bass

Really? You have both and know that for a fact? In any case many manufacturers make basses which are engineered not to be noisy, with ‘single coil’ pick ups. Anyway that’s not the point - humbuckers are designed to avoid hum - it’s a bit rich to have a bass advertised with humbuckers where they clearly don’t fulfil that function!! 
 

1 hour ago, Woodinblack said:

 

It is a really cheap bass that has a misdescription. lets not go crazy. Yes, it shouldn't have happened but it does. 

 

Again that really is not the point BUT - to some people buying one of those basses, that is a significant investment. Are you suggesting that just because a bass is cheap the public should accept inaccurate advertising and false claims? Unbelievable 🙄

Edited April 28, 2022 by drTStingray

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

I remember the time I found out that Guild's biSonic pickups, or more accurately the Dark star copies Fred Hammon was building at the time, were single coils. I had previously assumed they were humbuckers and was convinced that they were humbuckers as they are the size & shape of humbuckers and look very much like humbuckers. I dont think I've ever seen them advertised as humbuckers though.

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, drTStingray said:

Really? You have both and know that for a fact?

yes, I have had both a gretsch 220 and 2 different jazz basses (all of which were sold on here) although one was an aerodyne so had a p pickup. I gigged both types (the aerodyne only once, the gretsch 3 times, the geddy Lee quite a lot), the geddy Lee jazz was slightly noisier than the gretsch on one pickup, neither were an issue.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

Thanks to this thread, I now know that Leon the 'grocery store lobster' has moulted.

[Woodinblack]

43 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

Thanks to this thread, I now know that Leon the 'grocery store lobster' has moulted.

 

Now me too! Yay leon!

[skankdelvar]

Someone should set up a Humbucker Disappointment Survivors group, crowdfund a class action and put the guilty men on death row. It's the only language they understand.

[skej21]

8 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Someone should set up a Humbucker Disappointment Survivors group, crowdfund a class action and put the guilty men on death row. It's the only language they understand.

Sounds like “Bassists4Justic” is almost born. Let’s all go and purchase our fancy dress crustacean costumes and arrange to rendezvous outside the Fender factory for the protest…

[Stub Mandrel]

8 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Someone should set up a Humbucker Disappointment Survivors group, crowdfund a class action and put the guilty men on death row. It's the only language they understand.

 

How many other basses are affected? This could be rife across the industry. It's possible that humbuckers don't actually exist! I have already returned my Epiphone Embassy to Thomann so they can check if the so-called "probuckers" are really mutant p-90s. I am braced for the trauma and disappointment,  but clearly it's better to have the test done by a professional. I don't think I could cope with the sudden change of tone experience of discovering the lie myself.

[Woodinblack]

8 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

so they can check if the so-called "probuckers" are really mutant p-90s.

 

Well, if they are probuckers, I assume they are designed to buck pros. so they are probably safe in that description!

But yes, maybe humbuckers are all lies. 

 

[ezbass]

21 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

Well, if they are probuckers, I assume they are designed to buck pros. so they are probably safe in that description!

 

Harsh 😆

 

21 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

But yes, maybe humbuckers are all lies. 

 

Invented, or at least patented (applied for), by Seth Liar.