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Precision Bass advice

Beedster

By Beedster,
in Bass Guitars

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Telebass Mentor

Telebass

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I think, and have for a while now, that it's mainly how you play, not what you play. My personal opinion? You probably passed over 15 perfectly good Precisions in search of something that doesn't, and probably cannot exist. It's in your fingers, mate. If it's not, you're going to be looking a long, long time. Better to be playing your basses than 'tone-hounding'.

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OldGit Mentor

OldGit

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[quote name='Telebass' post='461335' date='Apr 13 2009, 05:12 PM']I think, and have for a while now, that it's mainly how you play, not what you play. My personal opinion? You probably passed over 15 perfectly good Precisions in search of something that doesn't, and probably cannot exist. It's in your fingers, mate. If it's not, you're going to be looking a long, long time. Better to be playing your basses than 'tone-hounding'.[/quote]


I agree to a certain extent but if you have 2k to spend on a P bass then you should be able to get one that helps you as much as possible. Why fight the bass if you don't have to?

Chris, just go talk to Jon Shuker, after this one, if it doesn't feel quite right :)

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EBS_freak Grand Master

EBS_freak

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[quote name='OldGit' post='461338' date='Apr 13 2009, 05:16 PM']Chris, just go talk to Jon Shuker, after this one, if it doesn't feel quite right :)[/quote]

So you can get that one wrong too and left with an instrument you can't shift? I would say you need to know 100% what you want from a custom maker before you should go knocking on their doors!

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OldGit Mentor

OldGit

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[quote name='EBS_freak' post='461424' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:22 PM']So you can get that one wrong too and left with an instrument you can't shift? I would say you need to know 100% what you want from a custom maker before you should go knocking on their doors![/quote]


Wow, that's a very negative attitude.

Chris has now done the requisite research to define what he wants. Jon can make that into an instrument.

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EBS_freak Grand Master

EBS_freak

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[quote name='OldGit' post='461433' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:26 PM']Wow, that's a very negative attitude.

Chris has now done the requisite research to define what he wants. Jon can make that into an instrument.[/quote]

Not really. It's a voice of experience. You need to know exactly what you want from an instrument in order to get it spot on. I see that Kiwi is still not entirely 100% with his build yet. My Cairnes is a world apart from what I really wanted... I only got to know what I wanted further down the line after I had played hundreds of other intruments...

I'm not questioning Jon's ability in the slightest, I'm just questioning if Chris knows exactly what he wants yet!

There's the question of woods, pickups, neck profile, radius, number of frets yiddah, yaddah...

Edited by EBS_freak
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OutToPlayJazz Experienced

OutToPlayJazz

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One thing you should try, Chris... I know it's not custom or boutique, but I just picked up a Yamaha Billy Sheehan signature BB714BS. Wow! The quality is out of this world & the sound is like a Precision bass that's been on a Stella Bender for the last 48 hours! The addition of the mudbucker pickup gives the P concept a whole new voice. Sounds huge :)

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andy67 Mentor

andy67

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Hi Chris,

simple question: what is it you do? jazz, funk, rock bit of everything etc.

for me it was simple realising I was brought up on precisions and eb3's but never quite happy with them individually, the Yamaha Attitude was almost a godsend! well, erm, not quite as dramatic!! it plays like a decent p and has the thump or whooomf of an ebo/3.

it might be worth a try?? reading into your posts it would seem we have the same common issues with the pbass:

not enough bottom end
no true balance between string output
or, very few just do it, that thing we have in our heads which tell us is the one!

in all my years playing...I have found dimarzio to give the best output - for me - and equalization through the strings and in this finding the attitude.

andy

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Telebass Mentor

Telebass

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Posted (edited)

[quote name='OldGit' post='461338' date='Apr 13 2009, 05:16 PM']I agree to a certain extent but if you have 2k to spend on a P bass then you should be able to get one that helps you as much as possible. Why fight the bass if you don't have to?[/quote]

Oh, certainly true. I agree that it can help, some.


[quote name='EBS_freak' post='461424' date='Apr 13 2009, 07:22 PM']So you can get that one wrong too and left with an instrument you can't shift? I would say you need to know 100% what you want from a custom maker before you should go knocking on their doors![/quote]

Agreed, with OG, that's a bit negative. For all my comments, you have to keep looking!

Another point is that the more you spend, diminishing returns applies. A really nice Mexican Precision will take a lot of beating, at ANY price. A poor one is just that, poor. £2000 of P is not £1600 better than that MIM, and never will be.

Edited by Telebass
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Beedster Grand Master

Beedster

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Guys, some great advice above, thanks. I have to say that, irrespective of the experience of others, i would be concerned that if I had a bass built the spec I would define would almost certainly throw up some issue I hadn't anticipated (kinda like Donald Rumsfeld's 'unknown unknowns'), which is why I haven't gone that route. I've also considered a neck Tele PUP alongside a PPUP and I might well have a body routed to experiment with that combo, after all, if it doesn't work out, I can replace the modified pickguard with a new one and no-one's any the wiser!

Anyway, I received some great advice above. I alse PM'd a few guys and sought their opinion (note that if you didn't get a PM it's 'cos I was pretty sure what your answer would be anyway (for example Silverfoxnik was never going to be happy about me letting the Wal go so i didn't ask, and WaterofTyne was unlikely to condone any non-Fenderism), and the winner was the...

Sadowsky MV4HJP

which, luckily enough I was offered in a PX deal for my Wal by Alanbass here on BC. I have to extend special thanks to Terry (Loudandclear), who inadvertently clinched the deal for me when, during a discusion about a possible deal for his Celinder Precision, he said (and I hope you don't mind being quoted Terry) "If I had a gig tomorrow there is only one bass i would go with and that is my sadowsky metro hybrid (PJ with jazz neck) - not necessarily a traditional p sound but many p characteristics and sounds brilliant in the mix - maybe try one out". Anyway, I remember Birdy saying to me about two years ago when I was experiencing similar Precision woes that I should get a Sadowsky, and thought, "yep, it's about time...".

First impressions....?

Well, I plugged it in, rotated the controls fully clockwise and experienced a sonic sensation that made my old Modulus Flea sound positively quiet and tonally limited, i.e., not exactly Precisiony. A few minutes later when I had worked out the Vintage Tone Circuit (which seems similar to the Markbass VLE circuit which I so miss now I'm playing an R500 instead of an LMII), and had realised that flat tone is achieved with all controls fully counter-clockwise, I had a sound that was essentially an extremely responsive Precision with the potential to add something when I need to. OK, I was playing at room volume so I have no idea how it's going to sound in the mix, but I can't help feeling really optimistic. I have to admit I quite enjoyed playing some very trebly funk lines with the J-PUP and the active circuit on! Thursday's session will be interesting, and I'll add some more feedback then.

Thanks to Alanbass for a great and quick deal, to Loudanclear for being so honest about a bass I was at the time determined to get (his Celinder), and to everyone above and in PMs who took the time to give me advice.

Chris

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loudandclear Rising Star

loudandclear

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[quote name='Beedster' post='462603' date='Apr 14 2009, 11:43 PM']I have to extend special thanks to Terry (Loudandclear), who inadvertently clinched the deal for me when, during a discusion about a possible deal for his Celinder Precision, he said (and I hope you don't mind being quoted Terry) "If I had a gig tomorrow there is only one bass i would go with and that is my sadowsky metro hybrid (PJ with jazz neck) - not necessarily a traditional p sound but many p characteristics and sounds brilliant in the mix - maybe try one out". Anyway, I remember Birdy saying to me about two years ago when I was experiencing similar Precision woes that I should get a Sadowsky, and thought, "yep, it's about time...".

Thanks to Alanbass for a great and quick deal, to Loudanclear for being so honest about a bass I was at the time determined to get (his Celinder), and to everyone above and in PMs who took the time to give me advice.

Chris[/quote]


Chris no problem I think you will get on very well with the Sadowsky - its no problem you quoting me either I just maybe would add a small amount of context - the Celinder would stand up to any Sadowsky (or any other bass for that matter) (imho) but having exchanged Pm's with you it was my opinion that a sadowsky was more suited to what you were stating you were after (I have one so was able to offer my own judgement call on this) particularly the jazz neck - I would have loved to have sold/swapped the celinder but not if you werent going to be happy with it!
I love the Celinder but probably the only reason I am selling it is it has a Precision (44mm neck) and I like you have just come to prefer a Jazz neck. Anyway love to know what you think after you have had a god chance to play the Sad in a band setting.

cheers

Terry

Edited by loudandclear
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niceguyhomer Proficient

niceguyhomer

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Nice one Chris - I've used mine twice live and it did a fantastic job - uber chest thumpy punchy and to my ears clearer in the mix than a normal P. My favourite sound so far is passive with the pup blend leaning towards the P pup - gorgeous, fat sound waiting for you there but with a bit of clarity too.

You'll love it.

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Beedster Grand Master

Beedster

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I put my thoughts on the Sadowsky here [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31497&st=20"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=31497&st=20[/url] but thought I'd cut and paste them into this thread as well.

[i]I've been a passive Precision guy for some time but have begun to find that I'm simply not getting the clarity I need with the band I'm currently playing in (fretless parts on my Jazz were fine but the Precision wasn't cutting it for parts where I needed to be in tune!). I PM'd several people on here asking for advice and it kept coming back to a Sadowsky Hybrid PJ4, so I picked one up in a deal a couple of weeks back. I'm not 100% with it yet (although about 99%) but the band sure are, and some! Rehearsed it the day after I bought it and the smiles around the room said it all. Basically they (and I) could really hear the bass, that is, not just know it's there, in tune and on time, but pick out everything I was playing. It has a beautiful top end that unlike my old 'rays or Fleas isn't at all clanky or brittle; it retains, if not improves upon, the punchy mids of my 70's Precision, and the lows (with tone up) have more in keeping with my old Telecaster Bass than a Precision or Jazz but are infinitely more controllable and therefore useable (we played around with 'Stir It Up' the other day and I was able to produce a depth of tone that could never be produced by a passive Precision, at least not with a small rig). The only thing I don't like about it is that I now have to think when I play, for example which PUP? which tone? VTC? Things were so easy in the Precision days! Still, there's gonna be a cost to better tone and I'll get used to it I'm sure. It's certainly a quality bass which, unlike other top-end basses I've owned, retains a classic vintage quality whilst adding a little extra. Build quality is excellent and I've not found any issues (although the open E is a little bell-like to my ears this is as likely the string as the bass, at least I'm hoping it is).

I've owned several MMs and Moduli and found them generally too brittle and in your face for the style of music I play (with the possible exception being the Bongo on which I could roll off the high mids), the active Fenders I've owned have generally been let down by poor electronics (and on occasions poor build quality also), and I just didn't get Statii at all. Hence I decided sometime ago that I didn't like active basses. I think the Sadowsky might just be the active bass that turns it around.

And just to add icing to the cake, technically it's a Precision, so I'm still true to the cause! Lovely blonde finish, tort guard and maple neck, looks vintage to all but the most keen eye![/i]

I guess time will tell, but I'm certainly very happy at the moment. One thing I've realised since writing the above is that the board profile is very flat compared to my old Fenders and that takes some getting used to, but other than that, it's a pretty impressive upgrade from a Fender.

Thanks for all the help above guys

Chris

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Beedster Grand Master

Beedster

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[quote name='Beedster' post='470539' date='Apr 23 2009, 11:46 AM']One thing I've realised since writing the above is that the board profile is very flat compared to my old Fenders and that takes some getting used to[/quote]

... and it's staring to bug me. Not only that, but it has a virtually unfinished neck (very light oil I think), which I'm also struggling with. I tend to warm up on fretted and then move to fretless when I practice or rehearse, and every time I do so the neck on my '73 Jazz feels soooo good compared to the neck on the Sadowsky. I had a newish 'ray a couple of years back with a similar neck, i.e., flat profile and unvarnished maple, and, on reflection, I really struggled with that neck also. Anyway, the way I see it I have three options

1. stick with it and hope I get used to it
2. get the neck varnished (which wil likely be expensive and devalue the bass), or
3. sell it, get a decent Jazz, and install a Sadowsky preamp (I'm not really using the VTC)

I have to say that after rehearsing it this evening I'm tending towards 3., especially as, with the awesome preamp kicking in the botom end, I'm only using the bridge J-PUP anyway (in fact the P-PUP is almost to big a sound for me).

The way I feel at the moment, and somewhat ironically given the title of the thread, If I could get a fretted version of my '73 Jazz - same neck, same weight, same sound, but with perhaps just a bit more bottom end grunt - I'd be pretty happy :)

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