Being in a band with keys.........

[LukeFRC]

What people say about looking for the mids in the bass… but don’t make it a thing about gear and preamps …. also work with the keys player and look at their eq too. 

[40hz]

IMO, there's nothing I dislike more in the world of live music, than a bass heavy keys player. It's a one-way ticket to swamp land.

 

Rather depressingly, all keyboard players I've played with don't seem to grasp this concept and hammer away on the left hand side with gay abandon. No matter how much you tell them, either.

 

My solution has always been to turn down the bass on their channel to FOH on the mixer (on the quiet).

Edited April 14, 2022 by 40hz

[scalpy]

The solution for this in my function band is rather extreme. I arrange all the keyboard parts- a lot of right hand only work. I then programme the Mainstage patches, all of which are high passed like crazy. If we use a dep, they have our keyboard rig. If any of them don’t like it, they don’t come back! Dealt with. 

[Downunderwonder]

The last plus keys gig I did was very small scale. Plan was to put his keys through my FR rig but thankfully he was erring on caution that I might not make it so he brought his weenie amp. As it happened I was last minute arrival for setup and he was all set so we boxed on. No mud since his rig couldn't make any!

[BigRedX]

20 hours ago, Roger2611 said:

Yodaclub has a great keys player, we don't get in each others way at all, if I fancy doing a bit of Peter Hook dusty end stuff she will drop in and cover the bottom end and as I come back into the lower register she will move up, I think it works really well and has got us plenty of radio play from our last few singles

 

This. 

 

It's how my band works too.

 

As a general rule you need to work on the arrangements and the instrument sounds for the whole band (not just the bass and keyboards).

 

There are plenty of classic bands with keyboards and no-one has ever said that their arrangements and mixes have the instruments fighting for their own sonic space. Listen and learn.

[Bassfinger]

We have a keyboardler in our band and I've never had any reason to think about it.

 

One band on the pub circuit I saw recently had a bassist who did double duty as a keyboardler. Fine, but when playing the keyboard - and he was good - they had no bass and it just didn't sound right to by battered lug holes. It's not as if he was even making an attempt to fill in the bass part on the keys,  butnwas simpky playing the keyboard bits and hell be damned to the bass.

[Boodang]

When it comes to keyboard players, employ one who has no left hand/arm. If this is not possible, wait until until the 2 handed keys player is asleep, chop off the persistently offending left appendage and blame it on large mosquitoes. 

[dave_bass5]

Im now in two bands with a keys player…..me 😂

Although it’s not a conscious decision, i stay out of the way of the bass. After all, i stopped playing bass for a reason so im not going to be wasting a hand duplicating what the bass player is doing. 

 

I tend to use my left hand more as a stabiliser than anything else. I try and fill in the space between bass and guitar, but im never louder than either unless i need to be. The bass player in one band is pretty basic so that end off the mix is normally quite clean anyway. 

[stewblack]

In a four piece with keys, bass, drums and vocals.

Loved the keys player when he auditioned for a band I used to be in. Main reason because he could really play, and take a solo at the drop of a hat. But the fact that his style dovetailed so nicely with mine was hugely influential in wanting to get him into the next band I formed.

It's not that his left hand never strays into my area, but he plays what the song requires and I have the bottom end taken care of so he doesn't have to worry.

[Dan Dare]

On 13/04/2022 at 15:58, ezbass said:

It's easy for a neck pickup or P bass tone to become lost in a dense mix that includes keys. This is where a J bass blend control favouring the bridge pickup, or a Stingray come into their own. I have found this even playing along to tracks at home. When I played in a keys heavy, 80s band, my solution was to use my J and MM types as described. There is another solution of course...

 

Very true, although it isn't only the pitch of the notes from the keys that can muddy the mix. As you point out, some bass tones cut through a dense mix better than others. The thing I find most important with keys is to persuade the keys player that he/she does not have to employ all the resources at his/her disposal all the time. The fact that the instrument is capable of playing ten notes simultaneously is not good reason to use it in that manner.

 

This can be an issue with Inexperienced keys players in particular, who are accustomed to playing complete pieces - melody, chordal accompaniment, etc - which stand alone without the need for any other instrument. They have to unlearn that method of playing (which is perfectly valid if one is a solo player, of course) and think more in terms of single note lines, partial chords and so on. That can be quite alien for some because it goes against much of what they are accustomed to doing.

[Lozz196]

The other thing that I can think of, and it’s how I look at the bass in my classic rock band that has keys, is that I don’t want to cut through, I want to support the drums & the groove and let the lead guitar & keys handle the upper frequencies without me getting in the way. That thing where you don’t notice the bass unless it stops, when suddenly the depth to the music just vanished.

[Greg Edwards69]

38 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

The other thing that I can think of, and it’s how I look at the bass in my classic rock band that has keys, is that I don’t want to cut through, I want to support the drums & the groove and let the lead guitar & keys handle the upper frequencies without me getting in the way. That thing where you don’t notice the bass unless it stops, when suddenly the depth to the music just vanished.

I accidentally trod on and pulled out my lead at rehearsal last week. We’ve been learning a raft of new songs so we’ve been concentrating on our own parts more than listening exclusively to everyone else. One of my band mates said it wasn’t until I accidentally unplugged my bass and plugged it back in that he really started to pay attention to what I was playing and how well it slotted into the mix. 

[dave_bass5]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

The other thing that I can think of, and it’s how I look at the bass in my classic rock band that has keys, is that I don’t want to cut through, I want to support the drums & the groove and let the lead guitar & keys handle the upper frequencies without me getting in the way. That thing where you don’t notice the bass unless it stops, when suddenly the depth to the music just vanished.

Yes. Every time i read a bass ‘ cuts through the mix’ i wonder why thats a plus. Any bass can be made to cut through the mix (makes me wonder if some people know anything about EQ), but surely most of the time you want it sitting exactly where in needs to be, which is not always cutting through. 

The overall  quality of a mix is far important than any one persons  ego (Singers excluded, as there really is no hope lol). 

 

Getting back to keys players encroaching on the bass players territory. I dont really believe there is one. With some bass players playing right up the other end of the neck, and using 6 string basses to get even higher etc, where do we draw the line? IME we don’t want to get clashing notes, which will sound muddy and not nice at all, but each band/mix/song should be taken on merit and not have a blanket  ‘don’t play anything with your left hand’ attitude.