Bassist Are VERY Conservative in what they want from a bass

[Spoombung]

As some of you may know I've got a [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=38531"]bass build[/url] going on at the moment and I've quite naturally been fantasizing in my own self-deluded way about a nation of bass players all enjoying the benefits a mass-produced version of the [i]Spoombung[/i] bass might bring.

Yesterday I was in Brighton ( on a little Easter break) and in the GAK store I overhead a conversation between the shop assistant in the bass section and a customer. The customer was looking for some unusual bass (couldn't quite catch the model) which was obviously issued some years ago. The shop assistant replied "Yes, that was a wonderful bass but just too unusual for our customers who tend to want the same old stuff year in, year out. We couldn't sell them. Bass players are [b]VERY conservative[/b] in their requirements and unfortunately we have to cater for their [b]conservative outlook[/b]".

That seems rather worrying for anybody with a new bass design... if you know what I mean.

So my question to you is; is it worth spending thousands designing a bass (that looks like an upside down octupus) for mass production given [b]bass players appear to be VERY, VERY, VERY CONSERVATIVE?[/b]

[ARGH]

Wanna know HOW conservative Bassists can be?

Start a thread on ERB's.......Mention Warwicks.....try and discuss the design failings of Stingrays,J's and P's.

Dont ever have an opinion on anything,smile,take the money ,build the bass,think of the money.....

[chris_b]

Now, remind me. Why does Fender continue to dominate the bass market?

[6stringbassist]

I don't think we're as conservative as guitarists are, or as we think we are. We do have have ERB's (whether some bass players like it or not, they do exist and they're not going ot go away, and I think they'll increase in popularity. But that's a different argument), fretless basses, EUB's, active basses, basses with piezo's only, graphite basses, the lightwave bass etc, etc.
Guitarists tend to use some variant on Strat, Tele or Gibson.

[escholl]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='460514' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:42 PM']I don't think we're as conservative as guitarists are, or as we think we are. We do have have ERB's (whether some bass players like it or not, they do exist and they're not going ot go away, and I think they'll increase in popularity. But that's a different argument), fretless basses, EUB's, active basses, basses with piezo's only, graphite basses, the lightwave bass etc, etc.
Guitarists tend to use some variant on Strat, Tele or Gibson.[/quote]

+1, i was just about to say. with the exception of parker and a few other guitars, pretty much every guitar is the same basic shape -- a strat, a tele, a LP, or a SG. Of course, guitards seem to be into more absurd designs that you'd never really see on a bass, like [url="http://www.deanguitars.com/dean_winter_06/usa_rebel_razorback.htm"]this[/url] -- maybe thats where the idea comes from?

[BigBeefChief]

I think its the nature of the beast.

The reality is, to most peoples ears, the guitar is a more versatile instrument There are more things you can do with it, and more (acceptable) sounds you can get out of it.

How many non-dance/RnB songs have a guitar solo in them? Most of them.

How many have a bass solo in them? Very few. Whether we like it or not, most people prefer and are more receptive to the sound of a guitar doing something different than a bass. These means there is a greater market for a broad range of guitars. Also, more people play guitar: more popularity = more variation.

Let's face it, the UK's most famous bass soloist (MK) spends most of his time at the bottom of the bargain bucket in petrol stations! I think the bass is a fine instrument, but a bass solo to me isn't as expressive as a guitar solo.

To me, bass is about holding down the low end (my opinion only), and for that I don't want anything more than 4 strings and passive electronics.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='460502' date='Apr 12 2009, 12:23 PM']As some of you may know I've got a [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=38531"]bass build[/url] going on at the moment and I've quite naturally been fantasizing in my own self-deluded way about a nation of bass players all enjoying the benefits a mass-produced version of the [i]Spoombung[/i] bass might bring.

Yesterday I was in Brighton ( on a little Easter break) and in the GAK store I overhead a conversation between the shop assistant in the bass section and a customer. The customer was looking for some unusual bass (couldn't quite catch the model) which was obviously issued some years ago. The shop assistant replied "Yes, that was a wonderful bass but just too unusual for our customers who tend to want the same old stuff year in, year out. We couldn't sell them. Bass players are [b]VERY conservative[/b] in their requirements and unfortunately we have to cater for their [b]conservative outlook[/b]".

That seems rather worrying for anybody with a new bass design... if you know what I mean.

So my question to you is; is it worth spending thousands designing a bass (that looks like an upside down octupus) for mass production given [b]bass players appear to be VERY, VERY, VERY CONSERVATIVE?[/b][/quote]

Look at all these high end bass manufacturers... what do they do? They copy the Fender Jazz. Borrrrring!! If they don't copy the Jazz they copy Warwicks. Leo Fender was one of the very few people doing anything inventive and only then because he had the clout to get away with it.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

Bloody Tories

(Well it is spelt with a capital 'C' in the subject line)

[BigRedX]

Places like GAK simply don't see that side of the bass buying market. If you are interested in instruments that aren't simply Fenders or their clones then I learned a long, long time ago that shops like GAK simply didn't stock the things I wanted to try. It used to be worth popping in every month or so to see if they had picked up anything unusual in p/x but now eBay has killed that off.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='460538' date='Apr 12 2009, 01:15 PM']Places like GAK simply don't see that side of the bass buying market. If you are interested in instruments that aren't simply Fenders or their clones then I learned a long, long time ago that shops like GAK simply didn't stock the things I wanted to try. It used to be worth popping in every month or so to see if they had picked up anything unusual in p/x but now eBay has killed that off.[/quote]

I'm guessing they know what sells and doesn't stay hanging on the wall for years. It's a similar argument to "why are they closing my school/railway station etc.". Because you didn't use it!!

[wesfinn]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='460541' date='Apr 12 2009, 01:22 PM']I'm guessing they know what sells and doesn't stay hanging on the wall for years. It's a similar argument to "why are they closing my school/railway station etc.". Because you didn't use it!![/quote]

+1 Exactly! this is why there are custom builders out there for those that want something out of the ordinary! having worked in music retail for years and also having been a builder for mike walsh i have realised that basses that are a bit more 'out there' i n terms of design are a big gamble for the retailers as they are expensive to have in stock whereas that money could go to a larger quantity of basses that would sell.

[Eight]

I think its probably true.

But what can you do!?! - if the numbers aren't there (i.e. not enough people will buy the bass) to make it cost-effective to produce then it can't be produced.

Having said that, a thread posted here recently pointed to a Dean limited edition custom jobbie which they only needed around a dozen people to buy (at around the £600 mark) to make it possible. So it is possible...

Back to the OP, is it worth doing? Depends on what you're hoping to get out of it - to break even but get your bass out there might be possible. To make a huge amount of money... maybe not.

+1 for more unusual basses though. That's where I'd want my money to go... however next on my list is a Warwick (for that tone) but if something different can compete with the sound then I'd be all over it.

Edit: I think bassists actually are a lot more conservative overall than guitards. However, this may just be a population thing. More guitars sold + more guitarists means that a smaller percentage of people buying unusual instruments results in a greater number of buyers. Manufacturers seem much more able to try new things with guitars and generate enough sales to survive the experiment.

Edited April 12, 2009 by Eight

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Eight' post='460546' date='Apr 12 2009, 01:38 PM']Having said that, a thread posted here recently pointed to a Dean limited edition custom jobbie which they only needed around a dozen people to buy (at around the £600 mark) to make it possible. So it is possible...[/quote]

Yes, but, for a Dean at 600 quid a dozen might actually be ambitious. Would you fork out 600 notes for a Dean bass? Honestly? I though so

[Eight]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='460547' date='Apr 12 2009, 01:43 PM']Yes, but, for a Dean at 600 quid a dozen might actually be ambitious. Would you fork out 600 notes for a Dean bass? Honestly? I though so [/quote]
Hahahaha. I'm saying nothing.

I was tempted actually. But in the end I didn't so...

[Delberthot]

Yes, we're very conservative

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Delberthot' post='460591' date='Apr 12 2009, 02:54 PM']Yes, we're very conservative [/quote]

Now if I put a gun to your head.... would you say that is a *conservative* Fender Precision or an *outrageous* Metal-flake-gold bass? In the dark it sounds like......

[Geek99]

well, speaking as a CIJ jazz owner in regulation sunburst, I probably [b]am [/b]conservative. It may be that most basses are recorded without [i]obvious[/i] sound effects and so [i]that [/i]sound is strongly associated with [i]that [/i]instrument, I suggest this is less true for guitars.
However if someone lent me a Charvel, or a Wal, or a Warwick I'd have no qualms trying it.

[risingson]

Most of the bass player on this site I'm sure have a good knowledge on 'what's the newest thing' at the moment... Sadowsky, those Genz Benz Shuttle things, whatever. Most other bass players, I'm guessing, don't. The big music stores like GAK get what they can sell in. You can stock the whole entire shop with Laklands, but that doesn't for one second mean they're going to sell as fast as Fenders and Squiers do. Most musicians like the familiar, and why shouldn't they? It's their prerogative if they don't want to explore newer realms.

I'd agree with the comment in as much as I know certain bass players can be pretty snobbish about gear, me included at times. If you're coming up with a new idea for a bass, I almost think there isn't any point anymore. The demand for the unusual and extreme is limited currently by trend and demand, i.e. there isn't much. No one should try and hamper the evolution of an instrument, I just think that most avenues of bass building are well catered for. Most people want 4-string, passive basses... put it down to conservatism, but it is reality.

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='liamcapleton' post='460679' date='Apr 12 2009, 06:08 PM']Most people want 4-string, passive basses... put it down to conservatism, but it is reality.[/quote]

I don't know, a lot of players do sure, but a lot of players nowadays are playing 5 string basses. And active electronics either as standard or aftermarket are a big seller. Just look at the companies like Aguilar, Delano, John East, Nordstrand and many others who sell pickups and preamp circuits.

[ARGH]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='460685' date='Apr 12 2009, 06:21 PM']I don't know, a lot of players do sure, but a lot of players nowadays are playing 5 string basses. And active electronics either as standard or aftermarket are a big seller. Just look at the companies like Aguilar, Delano, John East, Nordstrand and many others who sell pickups and preamp circuits.[/quote]
If Pete's survey is anything to go by,then '4 string players' are soon to become a minority.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

If bass players were really conservative we'd all be carting around double basses. The Fender precision took off because it either did the job better, cheaper or easier. Bass player that rocked a precison in the 50s were certainly notlooked upon as conservative. These days jazz players with any kind of electric bass are often looked down on by their peers. I love my precisions, but when I turned up for a blues band rehearsal with one, a couple of the chaps were surprised as it was the first time they'd seen me with a "proper bass" previously they had only seen my ashborys, NS 5 string upright & short scales.

Perhaps its the people that shop at GAK are conservative and the more adventurous buy secondhand, import or buy from specialist shops.

[alexclaber]

We're way less conservative with our instruments than most musicians! And even more so with our amps. Just look at guitarists!

I have some thoughts on producing some fairly radical basses in the future - however, although the underlying concepts will be very different they will look pretty traditional. I don't believe the typical bass player mindset matches up with wearing an instrument that makes punters go "what is that he's playing?!!"

Alex

[6stringbassist]

Singlecut basses !.

[Golchen]

I'm sure it's true for GAK. What they need to bear in mind is that they cater for a certain crowd, which doesn't necessarily form a majority of bass players.

[Tait]

this is going to sound like a rhetorical question, but its an actual question -

how many custom guitar makers are there out there? because i never hear about any, but i'm always hearing about different bass builders, and i go on both guitar and bass forums.

EDIT: im talking about electric guitars, theres loads of custom acoustic builders.

Edited April 12, 2009 by LWTAIT