Is any of it worth it?

[Vin Venal]

I've been through tonnes of gear over the past few years, sometimes chasing very particular tones, sometimes just seeing if I like stuff.

 

Certainly with the instruments themselves, less so with amps, cabs and effects, which are a bit more consistent, I'm finding that all the stuff people are shopping for - sound, feel, weight, build quality - it's all not only subjective, but also a bit random.

 

Sound is the big one - at the moment, the best sounding bass I've owned, in my opinion, is a 10 year old beater of a squier jaguar, with much maligned online Duncan design pickups, and knackered electronics- I dunno what's going on, but when the bridge pickup is on full, the bridge tone pot acts as a master tone for the bass. For whatever reason, that setting - both pickups on full, riding the back tone, through my gear, in my room, to my ears, sounds amazing.

 

Weight - you can buy an off the shelf American made fender, and end up with an instrument weighing anywhere from 7lbs to 11lbs, which is the difference between toy like insubstantiality, and an unusable slab of furniture imo.

 

Things like tuning stability - you can improve the odds with material choices, etc, but imo, it's mostly a crap shoot if you get a "good-un", or a neck which seems like it's still trying to grow towards the light.

 

For context, some of the basses I've gone through - sterling musicman stingray, fender american ultra jazz, sire u5, gibson 2015 sg, fender vintera and player mustangs, ibanez mezzo 5er, ibanez ehb1005, fender player p-bass, marusczyk jazz, couple of squier jags. All good basses, with the possible exception of the gibson, which sounded like it was under water no matter what I did, but maybe that's your thing...

 

My conclusion is this - there's too much variation between individual instruments for differences between - brands, location of manufacture, materials, components, and price - to be anywhere near as significant as we're led to expect by marketing.

 

This leads me to believe its just not worth buying an expensive bass sight unseen. Certainly not unless factors which are important to you, like weight, quality control, setup, figuring etc - are all known - like a dealer who takes detailed images and weighs individual instruments. And I don't think I'd ever order a custom instrument. You might get a good un, but you might get a very expensive wall decoration.

 

It's also led me to think that I should stick to budget instruments. Probably sub £500 used. If my "best" (for me at the moment) bass is a slightly broken squier from a line which didn't even have a great rep when it was out 10 years ago (Indonesian vintage modified) which cost 250 quid with a hard case included from a dealer (so is probably worth about 100 quid), there's no point spending big money.

 

Thoughts?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Vin Venal

[Bassfinger]

11lbs unusable?  My breakfast weighs more than that.

[Vin Venal]

2 minutes ago, Bassfinger said:

11lbs unusable?  My breakfast weighs more than that.

 

Well yeah, this is the thing - it's all also really subjective.

 

Anything much over 8lbs for me pretty much means a sitting down instrument.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Vin Venal

[Clarky]

Horses for courses. I have a particular bass as my wife likes the colour. I have another bass (clue: R*ck) which I am persisting with as it looks cool AF but know deep down will not last. There's an indefinable personal aspect to what makes you feel good. That may be a cheapo Squier, it may be an uber-expensive Alembic, or something in between. 

[jonno1981]

Back in my guitar shop managing days I’d get so frustrated with people who refused to accept we didn’t have boxed up instruments out the back for every guitar on the shop floor. “You mean I have to buy this one?”. Yes sir, this is the instrument that you liked so much you wanted to buy it. If we had another one, how do you know if it’s as good or if you’d like it as much as this one. 
It’s not the brand, the price, it’s the guitar in your hands to judge! 

[Vin Venal]

7 minutes ago, jonno1981 said:

Back in my guitar shop managing days I’d get so frustrated with people who refused to accept we didn’t have boxed up instruments out the back for every guitar on the shop floor. “You mean I have to buy this one?”. Yes sir, this is the instrument that you liked so much you wanted to buy it. If we had another one, how do you know if it’s as good or if you’d like it as much as this one. 
It’s not the brand, the price, it’s the guitar in your hands to judge! 

 

That sounds like the kind of mistake I'd have made early on. A good one is a good ONE. Doesn't mean all the others will be good.

[stewblack]

My rule is if all my basses went up in smoke other than the one in my hand, and I couldn't buy another, would I be happy to gig and record with it for the rest of my time. 

If yes happy days. If no - for any reason no matter how small - it has to go.

[CJPJ]

It's like everything in the modern economy - basses / cars / bikes / clothes / furniture / TVs / glasses etc. etc. - its all designed to make you part with your money ultimately.

 

Buy hey, that's why we have the marketplace, to keep that wonder wheel of recycled GAS spinning.

 

All of which puts a smile on our faces and makes life a little more enjoyable!

[bassist_lewis]

If the thing you like the most is the cheap Squier then play it. My favourite/main bass is a handmade Callowhill 5-string. It cost me about £1300 (it was a much more favourable GBP-USD exchange rate back then), but I also have a Fender JMJ Mustang and a Nordstrand Acinonyx (both mass produced and <£1k) and I love playing those as well. I also have a Serek on order, which has every chance of not being what I want. But if I couldn't take that financial risk I wouldn't.

 

I agree its impossible to know without playing an instrument if you're going to like it, but I heard a podcast recently on buying custom instruments and Ian Allison said when he buys a boutique/custom bass, he wants to adapt to the instrument, for it to dictate how it wants to be played, rather than for him to decide what he wants and have the instrument fulfill that expectation. If you've found the one bass that does the thing you want, then just play that bass.

[grandad]

It takes time to know what instrument & amplification is your cup of tea and even then it may be temporal. 

[Burns-bass]

To 99.9% of people every bass sounds the same. If you like it, that’s all good but none of it matters.

 

I showed my dad my 66 candy apple red jazz bass with the matching headstock and he said “that looks knackered, my mate can re spray it”

Edited April 15, 2022 by Burns-bass

[Vin Venal]

2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said:

To 99.9% of people every bass sounds the same. If you like it, that’s all good but none of it matters.

 

I showed my dad my 66 candy apple red jazz bass with the matching headstock and he said “that looks knackered, my mate can re spray it”

 

Yeah, it always amazes me when people can't hear these massive tonal differences which I'm sure are there.

 

If there wasn't a massive community of people online confirming my perception, I'd think I was mad.

 

I think we're the weird ones though.

[Clarky]

It also depends on context. The audience at the Dog and Duck couldn't give a rat's @ss about the low mids vs high mids balance of your bass and amp (and will generally yell for Sex on Fire or Don't look back in anger) whereas if you are playing originals in big venues with a dedicated fan base your tone matters more.

 

Speaking as a Dog and Duck man 😀

[CJPJ]

So true. And also the quality of the soundman which can make the worst bass sound passable and the best bass like a bag of spanners

[Lozz196]

Having been on the “journey” of gear I’ve found that my faves are US Fender Precisions and specifically the 2013-16 Series. I’m happy with pretty much any Precision but those are my faves. And yes, no matter what bass I’ve used most of the bands I’ve been in couldn’t tell any difference on the new pickups/strings/pedals/anything, you know, the stuff that was clearly obvious (to only me it would seem).

[funkypenguin]

2 hours ago, Vin Venal said:

 

Well yeah, this is the thing - it's all also really subjective.

 

Anything much over 8lbs for me pretty much means a sitting down instrument.

 

Definitely a horses for courses thing with instrument weight, I've never really understood the preoccupation some players have with sub 10lb instruments but then my Warwick breaks the 11lb barrier and I've never really struggled with it even on long gigs (a 4 inch wide strap definitely helps).

 

If you've found your 'keeper' bass in that Squier, then thats awesome, keep it, enjoy it, play the frets off it  some people go down the custom route because they want something really specific from their instrument that isn't available off the shelf, at which point (and this is always assuming that you know precisely what you want and why you want it) you need to really trust that the builder a. knows what they're doing and b. understands what it is that you're looking for from the instrument. 

 

[Newfoundfreedom]

The whole tone thing is absolutely pointless subjective nonsense in my opinion.

 

Bass is bass.

 

I played an outdoor gig (mini Festival in a large garden) last weekend, no FOH, just amps and cabs. My two 1x12 Ashdowns were right on the limit, so I cracked up the mids to get more perceived 'volume'.

I usually have a much milder, deeper tone, so to my ear the whole gig sounded like a horrible scratchy mess. 

 

Afterwards, I had several people approach me, including the bass players from the other two bands, saying how great the bass sounded. We recorded the gig, and even listening back it sounds awful to me. 

 

So by all means, spend a fortune chasing "that sound". If it makes you happy and gives you more confidence as a player, then there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But just know that the rest of the world probably either couldn't care less, or has a totally different perception of tone than you do. 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Newfoundfreedom

[Downunderwonder]

When I got the secret sauce right all of a sudden I began to get compliments on my tone left and right. This having played bass for 20 years.

[alexa3020]

There’s a big tonal difference between a ebmm stingray & us fender p bass (which happen to be the basses I play)

But not a huge difference between an ebmm & sterling stingray or us fender p & squier p - I would imagine only the player & maybe a recording engineer might notice.

so I don’t think “bass is bass” is correct.

It’s all about tones we’ve heard and enjoyed listening to music.

If we apply that to other instruments, i think I could only tell the difference between guitar tone -I.e les paul or strat. Any other instrument, I wouldn’t have a clue.

 

 

 

[zbd1960]

It's the same issue with hi-fi. If you're an aficionado, you know what you're listening for. If you're not a specialist, you don't know what to listen for. I have some serious hi-fi kit. The kind of things which distinguish it from a less able sound system are often quite subtle, but it is things like properly resolving the bass so that it has pitch. When a sound engineer friend first heard my hi-fi system his response was 'wow, that's neutral - you've got good ears'.

 

I've more experience of hi-fi than basses, but I can tell they vary a lot. What I have trouble with is people posting comparisons on Youtube etc. First of all, the sound is compressed. Second if you're listening on a phone/tablet/PC the sound is seriously compromised. And even if you push it through a decent sound system, you've got he limitations of Bluetooth etc to deal with (and YT is still compressed). 

 

In theory, higher price should mean a better spec, better components, better build quality etc. In general, that's true but we can though all quote examples where a less expensive supplier hits the right mix and produced a really good piece of kit that is not premium priced. We can also think of big 'name' makers of stuff who trade on their name and don't deliver the goods.    

[CJPJ]

 

41 minutes ago, alexa3020 said:

There’s a big tonal difference between a ebmm stingray & us fender p bass (which happen to be the basses I play)

 

I agree although I think a point to make is that in the mix is it less clear - solo it is more apparent. There are fundamentally different acoustic instruments - Hofman 500 vs Ibanez. 

 

I think its also fair to say that a more noticable tone difference is acheived through playing style - muting, slap, pick vs finger. There's also strings - maybe less noticable - and the way the strings contact the fretboard (i.e fretless vs fretted).

[nilorius]

This is the same - which bass is the best in the world. There is no answer. Every brand has their own moments, which they hide from other brands, that let them sound different. You can't say that Ibanez is better than Fender for the sound or otherside. You just check them out by time goes on and finally, believe me - You will find YOUR bass or even 2 for different very good sounding. At least this happened with me after 10 years exploring the world.

[ubit]

4 hours ago, Newfoundfreedom said:

 

Afterwards, I had several people approach me, including the bass players from the other two bands, saying how great the bass sounded.

 

 

In my experience you always seem to like other peoples sound more than your own. Other people will say to me it sounds great but I always think it doesn't  and they sound better.

[Lozz196]

23 minutes ago, ubit said:

 

 

In my experience you always seem to like other peoples sound more than your own. Other people will say to me it sounds great but I always think it doesn't  and they sound better.

Def, I went through a phase of hearing other bassists playing Stingrays and absolutely living the sound. But in my paws they sounded rotten.

[Silvia Bluejay]

14 hours ago, Clarky said:

It also depends on context. The audience at the Dog and Duck couldn't give a rat's @ss about the low mids vs high mids balance of your bass and amp (and will generally yell for Sex on Fire or Don't look back in anger) whereas if you are playing originals in big venues with a dedicated fan base your tone matters more.

 

Speaking as a Dog and Duck man 😀

 

Very true. However we're finding that we get lots of compliments from the more discerning members of the audience about the sound and the balance of the band; that has to do with us having a soundperson our front, and also getting the right mix so that the instruments don't fight each other in the same sonic space.

 

Those punters who have no idea about good sound or balance - i.e. the majority - and only drunkenly yell for Johnny B Goode (in our case), don't realise that they are enjoying the gig so much because the sound is perfectly mixed, balanced, EQ'd to the room and exactly the right volume for the room and number of people in it. That's totally fine by us.