‘Stick-on’ temporary frets?

[three]

Well this question may be as ridiculous as the title sounds.  However does anybody know if it’s possible to source stick-on temporary frets?  I have two fretless basses - both lovely instruments but I know that they’d be far more likely to get played if they were fretted.  Before committing to having the basses modified (one a straightforward job, the other not), I’d like to try them with some temporary frets.  Any ideas from this incredibly imaginative and knowledgeable resource (and thanks in advance)?

Edited April 16, 2022 by three

[Aidan63]

I saw a video on youtube of a stick on fretted board for violin, so a bass version may possibly exist

the violin version didn't really seem to help get good intonation interestingly

[three]

38 minutes ago, Aidan63 said:

I saw a video on youtube of a stick on fretted board for violin, so a bass version may possibly exist

the violin version didn't really seem to help get good intonation interestingly

Hi and thanks very much for this - how intriguing.  I'll dig around on YouTube and take a look.  Weird on the intonation front too!

[PaulThePlug]

Google 'Half Round Wire'...

Something like Stainless Steel... maybe 2mm... stuck with thin double sided...

measuring up shouldnt be too bad... might only need to do say 12 to get the idea... then intonation wont be much ofcan issue,

 

You might need to shim the nut slots a little

...

 

[itu]

Lutes, gambas, and some double basses have been fretted. The frets are some kind of fabric. Do some search, and tell us, too.

[Jean-Luc Pickguard]

This question reminds me of a bass viol (aka viola da gamba) I saw in a museum. This was a cello-sized forerunner to the double bass which had frets made of the same gut used for the strings tied on the neck. According to his diary, Samuel Pepys enjoyed playing his bass viol.

 

[kodiakblair]

On 16/04/2022 at 09:29, three said:

 Any ideas from this incredibly imaginative and knowledgeable resource (and thanks in advance)?

Try using some cable ties.

 

2.5mm is the smallest I'm aware of , 91p gets you 100 of them at Screwfix.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/cable-ties-black-100-x-2-5mm-100-pack/65467

 

[three]

Some brilliant responses - thanks very much - that bass viol looks lovely. @PaulThePlug - excellent idea - both basses have adjustable nuts fortunately! Hmm, some form of hardened fabric… I’ll look into all ideas and update - thanks again

[velvetkevorkian]

9 hours ago, kodiakblair said:

Try using some cable ties.

 

2.5mm is the smallest I'm aware of , 91p gets you 100 of them at Screwfix.

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/cable-ties-black-100-x-2-5mm-100-pack/65467

 

Just be careful if you try this - I've left a nasty ding in the side of a neck trying to use a cable tie as a string mute before, I'm not sure they'll sit as flat as you'd want a fret to.

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, velvetkevorkian said:

Just be careful if you try this - I've left a nasty ding in the side of a neck trying to use a cable tie as a string mute before, I'm not sure they'll sit as flat as you'd want a fret to.

I found 2.5mm ties lay flat on the fingerboard ,never got any dings either.  They're thin , about 1.5mm, so conform to the shape they're wrapped around; nor do you need to hitch them super tight .

 

Added bonus is the low profile means you don't have to raise the action on your fretless by much.

 

Course it goes without saying, just because these wee ties worked as temporary frets for me it's not a given they'll work for @three 👍

[Dad3353]

If this is really just a trial, I'd suggest simply kitchen twine, knotted away from where the fretting hand passes. I'm not sure that any temporary 'bodge' will prove much, though. Fretting a fretless changes quite a lot, so one wonders if it's worth the time, trouble and cost compared to changing basses. If there's a bolt-on neck, a swap would be simple enough. A set or through neck would have to be darned good to be worth the risk. 

[three]

9 hours ago, Dad3353 said:

If this is really just a trial, I'd suggest simply kitchen twine, knotted away from where the fretting hand passes. I'm not sure that any temporary 'bodge' will prove much, though. Fretting a fretless changes quite a lot, so one wonders if it's worth the time, trouble and cost compared to changing basses. If there's a bolt-on neck, a swap would be simple enough. A set or through neck would have to be darned good to be worth the risk. 

I'd not thought of kitchen twine but have been working through options on Etsy - the suggestions on here have been both welcome and highly creative with some very useful stimuli.  I agree re: time and trouble and have been down this route previously.  Fretting really does change a lot (one of the reasons that I'm considering the move - the changes would be positive for me) and some basses designed and built as a fretless don't really take kindly to being converted.  On top of this, one of the basses is a through-neck and the other set.  So, I'm being very cautious prior to any decision.  They're also both rare and expensive basses.  I've been playing one this morning - the electro-acoustic - and I may just sell it as it is (a very fine fretless).  The other I will hang onto either way, though I know that I'd play it much more as a fretted.  The tone and playability of the instrument is fabulous, though I have little call to play fretless and the bass is just too good to be sat in its case.  For the experiment, I'm erring towards half round wire and double-sided sticky tape as a starter and will update on results.  If the work goes ahead, I intend to ask Martin at the Gallery to undertake the job - it's really not a basic one and will involve removal of board edge lines, re-positioning of side LEDs, insertion of oval fretboard markers, and the fretting itself.  Martin is one of the very few people that I'd trust with the work.  Unfortunately, sending it to the original builder (Alembic) is prohibitively expensive.

 

Thanks again all for the suggestions!   

[Woodinblack]

My suggestion would just be to sell them and buy fretted versions of the basses if possible. Getting fretless basses fretted is a lot of work, so will be expensive and pretty non reversable and it is not money you would ever get back selling them, so unless they are very rare, just getting fretted versions would be easier.

[three]

46 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

My suggestion would just be to sell them and buy fretted versions of the basses if possible. Getting fretless basses fretted is a lot of work, so will be expensive and pretty non reversable and it is not money you would ever get back selling them, so unless they are very rare, just getting fretted versions would be easier.

Thanks - I can certainly see the logic here!  Unfortunately, the electro acoustic is no longer in production, and a fretted version of the Alembic… well, you can imagine. I’m certainly in two minds here - having the solid body fretted is likely to be very expensive (as you suggest) and would probably reduce its value, though it would make it much more useable and I’ve not really considered selling

[lownote]

You don't say why you are averse to playing fretless.  There's a substantial fretless community on here, some going with lined fretless, others like myself with unlined. It's much easier than you might think, and more rewarding - after all frets are just playing by numbers, which encourages a very mechanical style of playing, with no nuance or thoughtful input from you.  Not saying frets are rubbish - I'm contemplating getting a fretted fiver at this very moment simply because chordal work and playing 'up the dusty end' is very hard fretless -  just that you wouldn't have the problem if you settled into playing fretless.  And if the reason you don't like frewtless is the 'mwah' sound (which I hate), you can simply dial it out by increasing your relief and action height slightly.

[Dad3353]

22 minutes ago, lownote said:

You don't say why you are averse to playing fretless.  There's a substantial fretless community on here, some going with lined fretless, others like myself with unlined. It's much easier than you might think, and more rewarding - after all frets are just playing by numbers, which encourages a very mechanical style of playing, with no nuance or thoughtful input from you.  Not saying frets are rubbish - I'm contemplating getting a fretted fiver at this very moment simply because chordal work and playing 'up the dusty end' is very hard fretless -  just that you wouldn't have the problem if you settled into playing fretless.  And if the reason you don't like frewtless is the 'mwah' sound (which I hate), you can simply dial it out by increasing your relief and action height slightly.

 

I concur with the above. Most of my basses (I'm a drummer..!) are fretted, but I have a very fine (inexpensive...) fretless 6-string, offered to me by Our Eldest. Unfortunately, Our Youngest had started learning to play on his new Cort Fiver, took over my Sixer and I've not really had a chance to play it much, since. This was a few years ago, now, and it rapidly became his main (only..?) playing bass. He doesn't play 'fretless' styles, he plays anything and everything in whatever style he's interested in, and it made no difference to him, from the outset, that it be fretless, compared to all our other fretted basses. Once the initial impetous is made, it's as easy (or hard..!) as any other instrument, as long as one has ears to hear, and a little time and patience to 'listen' to what's coming out, instead of looking at the fretboard. A leap of faith, at first, but not rocket surgery. I'd have thought that such a fine instrument as your Alembic deserved to be played, and would reward any effort many times over in satisfaction. I'd hate to be wrong... 

[Bunion]

You could put the Alembic up for trade on some of the Alembic club pages there maybe someone who prefers/wants a fretless and it willing to swap a fretted? 

[three]

1 hour ago, lownote said:

You don't say why you are averse to playing fretless.  There's a substantial fretless community on here, some going with lined fretless, others like myself with unlined. It's much easier than you might think, and more rewarding - after all frets are just playing by numbers, which encourages a very mechanical style of playing, with no nuance or thoughtful input from you.  Not saying frets are rubbish - I'm contemplating getting a fretted fiver at this very moment simply because chordal work and playing 'up the dusty end' is very hard fretless -  just that you wouldn't have the problem if you settled into playing fretless.  And if the reason you don't like frewtless is the 'mwah' sound (which I hate), you can simply dial it out by increasing your relief and action height slightly.

Apologies, I really should have provided some further context.  I've been playing fretless for well over thirty years and enjoy it immensely - I won't be giving-up either, I have another fretless that meets my needs and that will remain fret-free.  The two basses for which I'm considering the addition of frets are both short-scale (30.75" and 31.5" respectively) and I much prefer to play fretted short-scales.  Indeed, I play fretted shorties almost all of the time, though weirdly (perhaps) prefer to play long-scale fretless.  There's something about the feel of a long-scale fretless that is just right for me, especially a graphite neck with an unlined phenolic board.  I don't use fret-lines on a fretless and play by listening/feel rather than watching what I'm doing (most of the time, at least).  In addition, I tend to play fretless seated - I struggle with long-scales on a strap and tend to suffer backache as a result of the extra stretch, even with a nicely balanced instrument.  

 

@Bunion Thanks -  I'm a fairly active member of the Alembic Club - I could put the bass up for a swap as you suggest, but the likelihood that somebody would have a small-bodied, short-scale SII with a similar spec to mine (in the UK) is pretty small I'd have thought.  I'm pretty sold on the SII electronics and pickups too - I have a SCD and whilst it sounds wonderful, it's not the same as the SII.

 

Some great ideas and advice here and again, thanks.  I'm erring on the side of selling the electro-acoustic but still weighing-up how to proceed with the Alembic.I'm off shopping next so some kitchen twine.  I have loads of cable ties too (small size) so I can give that a go, though the favourite so far is half round wire - plenty on Etsy. 

[Bunion]

5 minutes ago, three said:

I'm erring on the side of selling the electro-acoustic

Sale or not I’m intrigued as to what it might be. 
Put us out of our misery 😂🤣

[three]

Just now, Bunion said:

Sale or not I’m intrigued as to what it might be. 
Put us out of our misery 😂🤣

Sorry, it's a Gillett

[Aidan63]

The canadian who makes the violin stick on fretted board makes a viola one too, probably not the same scale length as the shorties though

[velvetkevorkian]

4 hours ago, three said:

Sorry, it's a Gillett

Disappointed to learn it's not, in fact, the best a man can get.